Log Spliter Welding

[freemind]

O.K. Guys, educate me a bit. Why is verticle up preferred over verticle down? I took a welding class a long time ago, and with the first rods the instructor gave us he said: "Now take your hammer and chip off all the flux. Once you can strike and keep an arc going, will I let you weld with coated rods." At the time we were all pissed, but in retrospect I can see his reasons.

I don't consider myself a welder, but I can stick steel to steel and aluminum to aluminum and not have them come apart. :msp_tongue:

My MIG vert down welds look prettier than vert ups.

Vertical up welds get deeper penetration. Downs get the lest penetration and are actually the weakest welds you can make.

 

[NPKenny]

O.K. Guys, educate me a bit. Why is verticle up preferred over verticle down? .....
My MIG vert down welds look prettier than vert ups.

Vertical down is often recommended for MIG. Vertical up is recommended for stick welding in most situations.

 

[gink595]

If that were the case, then it is odd that I passed a 6G ASME pressure vessel test, huh? 100% CO2 works.

You weld how you want, and I will stick to what I know. :msp_wink:

I will stand corrected:msp_smile: I have never heard of using 100% CO2. I wouldn't have guessed that the arc would be stable enough to run 100% without argon. I did some research and it is used. I have used different mixes like 98/2 and 75/25 mix and there is a big difference in splatter with the added CO2. I couldn't imagine the splatter with 100%.

Pressure vessel...Fremont...Lagrange Products?

 

[ziggo_2]

Id like to know how everybody get the 7018 rods to work....I have an old forney ac buzz box and cant get ac 7018 rod to even make a bead, ive tried all amp settings and baking the rods too. Nothing works.

I use the lincoln ac 225 welder at work and after many attempts made a bead about a 1/2 in long

heres a picture of some beads i did the other day....all the splatter you see on it is my attempt at 7018 rod

View attachment 218018

 

[radroy92]

7018 rods

Id like to know how everybody get the 7018 rods to work....I have an old forney ac buzz box and cant get ac 7018 rod to even make a bead, ive tried all amp settings and baking the rods too. Nothing works.

I use the lincoln ac 225 welder at work and after many attempts made a bead about a 1/2 in long

heres a picture of some beads i did the other day....all the splatter you see on it is my attempt at 7018 rod

View attachment 218018

You have to keep 7018 rods in a rod oven at 250 degrees F. 7018 can be hard to start after making a bead and stopping. The flux coats the end of the rod and you have to scrape it off to retstart the rod. I scrape them on rough steel or concrete or a file,
Old 7018 rods even after baking can be garbage. But at your skill level you should be able to make a bead. Try 120 amps with 1/8 rod and keep the arc short. Spatter with 7018 = arc too long. 7018 are called drag rod because the metal rod melts away up into the flux coating and leaves a short tube of flux that prevents the metal rod from making contact so once you establish an arc you can litteraly lay the rod on the base metal and let it walk along forming the bead. If you can't do this even with old wet 7018 it's you not the rod. 6013 rods make pretty beads but they have little penetration = don't use on a log splitter. 7010-7011 are usually first pass rods in some applications like pipe welding. Try 85-90 amps with 7010-7011 They have high penetration and good strength. Usually you weld over those with 7018 for the final passes in a multipass weld. If I have no dry 7018 and I'm making something for myself I will use 7014 rods that don't have to be in a rod oven. They run faster than 7018 but behave a lot like 7018. Over all any flux coated rod should be kept in a dry environment. Rods sitting loose on a shelf in a cold garage exposed to high humidity at times will not perform at thier best.

Rod angle, travel speed and Amperage all figure into your beads. Your beads look a little slow like you are putting down too much metal. But going too fast will undercut so will Amperage that is too high. For our concerns the most important welds on on joints exposed to cyclic stress. That's the wedge, plate, cylinder mounts etc. Undercutting on these welds creates stress risers inviting cracks to form.

Don't play around with the Amp settings too much. Each rod type and size has a range of Amperage were it will work. Get a rod amperage chart from you supplier or off the Web.

Your beads look pretty good. Sit down with a box of rods and make practice beads for an hour a day. Try different setting within the range for each type /size of rod. Try different travel speeds and rod angles. You will improve if you practice but you won't if you only weld to make a joint here and there.

Be an informed welder. Read!!

Roy

 

[freemind]

I will stand corrected:msp_smile: I have never heard of using 100% CO2. I wouldn't have guessed that the arc would be stable enough to run 100% without argon. I did some research and it is used. I have used different mixes like 98/2 and 75/25 mix and there is a big difference in splatter with the added CO2. I couldn't imagine the splatter with 100%.

Pressure vessel...Fremont...Lagrange Products?

Used to be there, not anymore though.

The splatter isn't too bad on a MIG if you aren't racing wire and cranking heat.

 

[gink595]

Used to be there, not anymore though.

The splatter isn't too bad on a MIG if you aren't racing wire and cranking heat.

I was a mig welder for about 7 years at a couple different places here in NE Indiana, used to burn 44# of wire a night welding structural. I still do some welding work out of the house. I want to try 100% CO2 now...hahaha

 

[CJ1]

Id like to know how everybody get the 7018 rods to work....I have an old forney ac buzz box and cant get ac 7018 rod to even make a bead, ive tried all amp settings and baking the rods too. Nothing works.

I use the lincoln ac 225 welder at work and after many attempts made a bead about a 1/2 in long

heres a picture of some beads i did the other day....all the splatter you see on it is my attempt at 7018 rod

View attachment 218018

7018 is a DC rod only unless it is ac stabilized and I have only saw that 1 time, so I highly doubt the rod was. Don't overthink this, just get some 6011 for a AC machine, bevel the pieces, preheat a little if cold and run some beads with some heat behind it. This is not x-ray stuff, get some metal in there and make it hold. Weather you run it up hill or down depends on the rod and operator ability. 6011 does not care but it is easier flat or downhill. CJ

 

[ziggo_2]

my 6011 only works on 115 amps. for some odd reason it wont work at any other amp setting.

6013 doesnt provide a lot of penetration but i run a 1/8 rod at 155 amps and it does nicley.

I had a old 7014 rod. Made a nice bead, but almost no penetration.

My 7018 rod are E7018AC, says they are designed for ac welders. They are new rods, tried everything you suggested, They just wont work. I cant even get it started. Ill try again some time.

I use more 6011 than anything, unless i want a nice looking bead.

It would be nice to find some more Nippon Steel S-13Z rods. (left here when i bought the place) Those are some sweet rods....killer beads and penetration. I think there the Japanese version of 6013

Couldnt find any 7011, i want some...guess ill have to go to the welders supply store soon.

Im no novice, but this is probley the first time ive broken away from good ole' 6011. Havent ran a tig yet, Anybody want to loan one out??:msp_razz:

 

[turnkey4099]

.035 wire will work. Joint preperation is the key to it lasting. You should be able to bevel and make full penetration welds. I welded my splitter together with .035 ER70. I had bevel the big stuff and the important stuff...wedge and push plate. If it is thick steel pre-heating isn't a bad idea because it will draw the moisture out of the metal and the penetration will be better than if cold.

Here is my push plate on my splitter. This was 1.25" plate. I put a 45* bevel on it and it took probably 15 passes before it was full of weld.

You can see I beveld the wedge at the beam. I will run a multi-pass weld and the grind the back side out (root pass) and then run a couple passes so that weldment joint is a complete sound weld (complete Joint Penetration)

Not that is pretty welding!!

Harry K

 

[DIESELBOB]

Vertical down welding has 1/3 the strength of verrtical up. Wire welders weld fine with just co2. But adding argon smooths out the
weld,cuts down on splatter. and speeds up welds considerly. From a old welder<74>. Keep on burning them rods,takes a lot of practice. Bob

 

[freemind]

I was a mig welder for about 7 years at a couple different places here in NE Indiana, used to burn 44# of wire a night welding structural. I still do some welding work out of the house. I want to try 100% CO2 now...hahaha

I worked welding for several years around here. Work on a farm for now (past 7 years or so). Some days I miss it. Most days I am happy not to be punching a clock and standing in the same spot all day, stooped over.

Try the CO2. I don't think you'll be "hooked" but you should see that there is a purpose for it. In certain situations it works fine.

 

[Patrick62]

Ziggy.... and the 7018

This is 7018AC in 5/32 size run at 200 amps.View attachment 218197

Ziggy, look at your box. if it says Made in Mexico make coat hangers outta them. From my personal experience they can't make a good AC electrode there. They won't even run well on DC... (I tried).

The amps have to be on the high side, and the arc will be short. Takes a careful touch but once running it should be possible to maintain a constant bead with the stuff. When I first tried some a few years ago I had a box of stuff that was made in USA and I don't remember the brand but it ran real sweet Then the next box... mexico. I tried everything. Best I could manage was a couple of inches at a time. Frustrating.

You are doing very well with the other electrodes. (better than me, I might add)

Lots of great welding advice on this thread. I loved it!

-Pat

 

[ziggo_2]

if your using 7018 5/32 rod at 200 amps then i must need like 300 amps for 1/8 rod....or did you mean 5/16s rod?

anyhow they probably are made in mexico cause it was sunday when i got them, welders supply wasnt open, fleet farm was..

I probably wasted my money...oh well ill get buy just fine without them.

 

[Patrick62]

I got it right.

Ya win some, ya lose some. The crap that I had out here from Mexico I wanted to grab that kid from Forney industries (sales) and drag him out to the shop and force him to try and stike a arc with that stuff... then let him run a good rod for comparison.
Didn't need to, I think that they dropped the mexico rods eventually. Back to Hobart which is good stuff for the most part.

ELECTRODE DIAMETER (THICKNESS) AMP RANGE PLATE
1/16" 20 - 40 UP TO 3/16"
3/32" 40 - 125 UP TO 1/4"
1/8 75 - 185 OVER 1/8"
5/32" 105 - 250 OVER 1/4"
3/16" 140 - 305 OVER 3/8"
1/4" 210 - 430 OVER 3/8"
5/16" 275 - 450 OVER 1/2"

 

[AIM]

I'm a pretty decent welder but I'll be the first to admit that I can't run 7018 to save my arse. Yeah I can do a nice horizontal flat bead but nothin else.
I'm a 6011 fan all the way. Not the prettiest beads and splatter like crazy but, up/down/inverted/flat, they all work.

 

[ezs]

O.K. Guys, educate me a bit. Why is verticle up preferred over verticle down? I took a welding class a long time ago, and with the first rods the instructor gave us he said: "Now take your hammer and chip off all the flux. Once you can strike and keep an arc going, will I let you weld with coated rods." At the time we were all pissed, but in retrospect I can see his reasons.

I don't consider myself a welder, but I can stick steel to steel and aluminum to aluminum and not have them come apart. :msp_tongue:

My MIG vert down welds look prettier than vert ups.

Vert up you get penetration. Vert down no penetration, weak weld. Sometimes used only for appearance in ornamental situations. It is not a structal weld.

 

[mtfallsmikey]

Wish I could "group rep" all of you...this is edumacational!

 

[CJ1]

I'm a pretty decent welder but I'll be the first to admit that I can't run 7018 to save my arse. Yeah I can do a nice horizontal flat bead but nothin else.
I'm a 6011 fan all the way. Not the prettiest beads and splatter like crazy but, up/down/inverted/flat, they all work.

I am a huge 7018 fan, if my stick machine is fired up it will have either 5p+6p in it or 7018, 8018, or 110 MR in it, all are in the 7018 family. CJ

 

[Axlerod74]

I was thinking about this question and some of the other comments you have made. The first thing I want to say is the only stupid question is the one you don't ask. I was wondering if you think you have to really crank up the Amps for thicker metal. The answer is no. Each type and size of electrode has a range of recommended amperages. You don't necessarily run a certain rod at it's max amperage because you are welding 1" steel. If you are doing things right you will be at the lower to middle range. Run the rod at max Amperage and it will be glowing by the end of the weld. Consideration to the joint design is really important too. Beveling, multipass welds, minimizing heat input to prevent distortion etc. are all parts of a good weld joint. If you don't have experience with thick metal joining get to reading and ask more questions. It will save you a lot of time. Do a search about rod types and their uses and Amperage ranges. It's interesting stuff. Also the Lincoln Procedure Handbook of Arc Welding is a great resource for all types of welding. I think the 14th edition is the most current.

Happy welding,

Roy

Thanks Roy! I agree, thick metal welding and joint design experience is where I am lacking the most knowledge. I remember growing up, when Dad got his first welder he also bought a book about welding and I read some of it. I remember there was an extensive section on joint preparation for deep penetrating welds. Wish I had that book here now. A little research is turning up helpful info.