Log splitter cylinder replacement

[woodworker501]

Hi. My splitter cylinder rod has a good size nick in it, thanks to the previous owner. Over time it started to leak at the seal. Now it is so bad that I just want to replace the cylinder, repairing it would be too expensive. The manufacturer of the splitter (Brave) has a 4 inch bore x 1 3/4 rod and a 4 1/2 bore x 2 rod. The org. is 4x1 3/4, I have a 16 gallon pump and 10 hp. Would it be worth upsizing to the larger cylinder?

Thanks

 

[Big_Eddy]

Depends
Are you happy with the performance of the splitter as it is? Does it ever "stall" out and not split your block?

Increasing the size of the cylinder will increase the overall force available at the wedge by 25%, and will INCREASE cycle time by roughly the same amount.
The larger cylinder only helps you in those cases when the current cylinder force is exceeded. (Goes on bypass)

If you never need the extra splitting force, then you'd just be slowing things down for no real benefit. However, if your splitter stalls out on every second block then you may appreciate the extra splitting force.

 

[muddstopper]

I would base upsizing the cyl on past experiences. If you have had a lot of wood that wouldnt split or got stuck on the wedge, I would upsize. If the current setup has been able to split most of your wood with few if any hangups, I would stick to the same size cyl. The only advantage you will get with a larger cyl size is more force, if you need it then go big. Going from a 4in bore to a 4.5 in bore will increase the force by about 5 tons @3000psi. Down side to a larger cyl would be slower cycle times. If you do up size, go with the largest rod size you can find as a larger cyl rod takes up more bore space than a smaller rod and will help equal out the difference in speed of going from a small bore and small rod to a bigger bore cyl with a larger rod. You can also improve cycle time by staying with the same bore cyl and going with 2in rod instead of the 1 3/4in rod. You also dont have to use a factory replacement cyl You can online shop for a cyl that has the same extended/retracted length and same pin size as the original cyl, and probably save a little money. Cyl lengths can be any size, but they are usually all about the same lenght for standard strokes. Specialty cyl, or cyl rated for more pressures can be longer, even if the stroke is the same, so make sure you measure your pin centers at full retraction and extension before buying. Going with something other than a factory brand of cyl also give you more options when it comes to port size and different sizes rods.

 

[woodworker501]

To be honest, I only had this splitter for a few months. It never stalled out, but then again I have not come across any nasty crotches yet.
When I purchased it I put a cherry round about 6" sideways and damn near split it in two, so I guess it has the balls at the present size. As for speed, working by myself it has a pretty fast cycle time.

 

[anlrolfe]

Down side to a larger cyl would be slower cycle times.

Increasing to a 4.5" ram will increase surface area and applied force by about 26% ( 15.9sqin divided by 12.57sqin) but the increased oil volume will decrease ram speed to about 79% of the current rate.

 

[woodworker501]

Wow, that is a big difference on the return.
Maybe I will just stay with the present size.

 

[muddstopper]

With your current pump and cyl, cycle time should be around 8.8 sec. If you go to a 4.5cyl with a 2in shaft, cycle time will increase to 11.2 sec/ If you go 4.5 with a 2.5 in shaft, cycle time will about 10.5 cycle. You also have the option to go with a 4in cyl with a 2in shaft for a cycle of 8.6 sec or a 2.5in shaft @ 7.9sec. Just throwing out some numbers to think about. Also one other option, which would probably be the cheapest, would be to take your cyl to a hyd shop and have them replace the shaft and seals. You could even have them install a bigger shaft if you think that extra .2 sec of speed is worth the effort. Of course all those cycle time numbers are based on a full 16gpm flow and doesnt take into account any time spent in the low flow, high pressure mode of the pump, so mileage will vary.

 

[woodworker501]

I thought the cost of a new rod and seals, o rings would me more then a new one

 

[JeffHK454]

Just repair the nick..file/stone/emery paper down the high metal and use Belzona. Pull the endcap or gland and put a new seal&wiper in and it will be good as new.

Clean the damaged area very good and apply the compound then blend back to match the rod chrome..reassemble and your done.

 

[woodworker501]

Its a pretty deep nick, the previous owner was kind enough to turn the rod to hide it.

 

[JeffHK454]

I fixed a dip cyl. on a large track excavator with Belzona..nick was 1" across and every bit of 1/4" deep. Big imperfections might need to be pocked up to help the epoxy "grip".

I was lucky that the operator saw the damage happen and he didn't drag the seals across it.

 

[woodworker501]

I will have to check into that, thanks

 

[Kevin in Ohio]

Just repair the nick..file/stone/emery paper down the high metal and use Belzona. Pull the endcap or gland and put a new seal&wiper in and it will be good as new.

Clean the damaged area very good and apply the compound then blend back to match the rod chrome..reassemble and your done.

That's my thought too if that is all that is wrong. I've done it in the past with good results. First time it was out of necessity as we had to keep going. 1/2 day down for orings and seal or 2 weeks + down waiting on cylinder, no brainer. Never did replace the cylinder as it never leaked again while I was there (8 years).

This is how I do it. Get a magic marker and make about a 3 inch circle around the nick. Use a FINE flat file at least a 1/2" wide. The wider the better. Hold it as straight as possible and the marker will tell you if you are crooked. When it start to blend stop and wrap a sheet of 600 grit or finer around the file or hard straight edge till it blends completely. Bow off with air, Wipe down with lacquer thinner acetone. I fill in with JB weld but any good 2 part epoxy will do. It's just filler. Rub some on and you can bend some heavy paper(like a greeting card) to even it out. Use about a 4 inch wide as it is easier to work with. This gets rid of the excess and save sanding. once dry, Sand off with fine paper again if needed. The less sanding on the chrome the better so try to swipe off the excess when it is wet. I generally wipe it with the card, then use thinner on a rag to get the outer , non marred area clean then.

Hope this helps.

 

[woodworker501]

Thanks, I checked on the Belzona, and it was over $100. The more I look at the rod, there is a lot of pitting like it was extended and left out in the weather. The more I think about it, my splitting is done for awhile, and I may just go with the 4 1/2 x 2 cyl.

 

[kevin j]

I have used superglue for small pitting on hydr cylinders and mc fork tubes. Same process as described above.

Surplus Center in Lincoln Nebraska great source.

Repairs if done by a shop would be very likely more than the $200-300 cost of a new cylinder.

With the increased forces comes more stress on the mechanical structure. Does it look l;ike it can take more force?


Depending how much you use it, I would do the repairs to the rod, new seal and wiper, and try it. If that fails, then look for cylinder.
Or, if you need it a lot, buy the cylidner first.
I'd stay with 4 inch, to keep the speed. I'd rather have 1% that I struggle with force, than have plenty of force and frustrated with speed 99% of the time.

 

[NSMaple1]

Sort of related - but last couple/few times out with my splitter, when it was below freezing, I was getting leaks out around the rod. Stopped leaking after the fluid warmed up. So pretty sure I need new seals. (Might have gotten damaged by crap getting pushed in on the return stroke? Dunno.) Anyway - how hard a job is that? I've never taken a cylinder apart before. Think it's just a 'typical' 22t splitter 4" cylinder. (Wallenstein/Surge Master). Thinking it's not complicated per se, but getting it apart might be challenging, in a 'things stuck together' kind of way. No hydro shops real close by, but will do some checking around - I don't have any plans to use it again before spring, unless the weather freakishly cooperates some in the next couple weeks.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

I've welded nicks and polished them
Never heard of the ballzonga.

Repacking cylinders is pretty easy, especially a small cylinder like on a splitter.
Big cylinders can be a pain, mostly because of the weight. We had the nut holding the piston come off on the buncher 2 years ago, that one took 3 guts and an excavator to pull. Cylinder was a good 750+lbs. Cost $2000 for a new rod, nut and repacking.

 

[kevin j]

NSMaple. How cold was it? If below zero, and if leaks cleared up when machine warmed up, I would just run it.

Seal materials (usually Viton) that are good for high temps can leak at cold temps. I would not think a logsplitter would have Viton seals, as they cost a bit more and certainly not needed. Nitrile are good to about 180 or 200F, viton to 250 or a bit more.

We got a batch of cylinders with Viton seals by vendor error. Fresh from shop, startup over Christmas time, about -25F when parked outside over night. Leaked every seal, enough to drip, red on the snow everywhere the next morning. Had to pull over 275 cylinders of various sizes, return to vendor, R&R seals, and back to machine and reinstalled in 4 days. Vendor screw up, but super service. We spent millions with them each year, so they jumped. But that type of service is why we were spending all our cylinder dollars there.

 

[NSMaple1]

It was below freezing. First time I noticed it, it had sat overnight in temps between -5c & -10c, by the time I started using it the air temp was almost up to 0. Last time out, it sat in temps colder than that - but I took a propane torch with me & heated the cylinder up some first, seemed to not leak as bad, just a couple dribbles.

I usually don't work it in temps that cold - when winter comes, it usually gets parked, but this time I had the chance to finish up a couple piles of rounds before the snow really hits, that I didn't have time for before. I think maybe I will wait & see how it does in the warmer temps again. I do think maybe I should change my fluid though - it was kinda milky looking (pink not red), and that last time I also had to put the torch on the valve for a bit to get it to free up, it wouldn't budge.

It's due for some servicing, had a tough year with no love at all. I broke my bubblegummed up log rest/table thingy not paying attention, bent the front leg/foot bad when the pin fell out & it dropped to the ground while doing about 25mph behind the ATV, and I really need to reroute some hoses for easier h/v swinging. Not to mention the 4" or so of trash buildup in each end of the beam - good thing that stuff was splitting quick. Engine was purring like a kitty though.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

-10c isn't cold, that's around 15* F.. nice working temp!

I run equipment in -25*F and they don't leak from the cold. Just weld the rod, polish it out, put a seal kit ($20-30 area) and call it good.