Logger's escape route trees--Stressed dwarf minion Hemlock--Amazing!

[slabMan]

I have been studying a particular tree for some years now, but I am running into dead ends on data. Perhaps a big brained Arbor Site dendrologist or botanist may be able to provide more information on the "Stressed Dwarf/Minion Hemlock" tree. When I watch some logging videos of loggers cutting their escape routes I say out loud, "Don't cut that little tree! It is probably older than the big one you want!" In other words, the little "sucker", mainly Western Hemlock trees with the umbrella shaped canopy or sometimes they look like what I call, "Grim Reaper Scythe" shape can be CENTURIES old and only a few inches in diameter! Surely loggers have seen sparks fly off their chains when cutting those little trees for an escape route and probably assuming it was dirt that caused it. Cut one and count the rings and you will see that they literally have been patiently waiting for the Giants around them to fall so they will have their own endless supply of light to thrive [finally]. Hemlocks are the most shade tolerant of all the PNW conifers, so most of these dwarf trees are of the Hemlock species, but other conifers can be similar. When they grow into what look like "80 year old Hemlocks" [typical age assessment by tree pros/24"dbh], they are well over 200 years old. After they finally get their light, they grow disease resistant and that Hemlock stick becomes a quality piece of wood! Fall one over a stump and nothing will break, not even the top!

I personally find it absolutely amazing that such a small tree can live that long and only be a few inches thick [diameter]. I would think there would be more data on this and that makes me wonder just how studied they are [or lack their of]. Since I have been on this site, it seems there are a lot of cogent and talented members who seem to have answers for a lot of related issues. Is there anyone who can provide more information on these special "freak of nature" trees? If not, at least we loggers might have several options for an escape route to cut now! [lol--but true]. I have nothing but respect for something that lives that long, especially without a whole lot of built in defenses from Nature! KEEP EM SHARP!

 

[slabMan]

I figured there would not be too many replies on this post, due to the dearth of data and familiarity, but I should also ask, do these 'special' Hemlock logs get mixed in with the other "white wood" or "Hem/Fir" and do they just end up as a 2 x 6 at Home Depot or some other retailer that make some lucky customer happy with some good boards? Or is there some wholesaler or mill that reroutes their processing path and label them as "PP-PowerPole",#1, or "select/premium" as a better grade? Surely, someone would know the stark difference in Hemlock quality between your 'run of the mill' sticks and these former dwarf logs, by a simple glance at the end grain, similar to old growth vs. new growth. Maybe the trees are just not that common to make any changes to the processing protocols.

 

[BeatCJ]

No, there is no process to grade out "special" hemlock logs.

 

[Del_]

I have been studying a particular tree for some years now, but I am running into dead ends on data. Perhaps a big brained Arbor Site dendrologist or botanist may be able to provide more information on the "Stressed Dwarf/Minion Hemlock" tree. When I watch some logging videos of loggers cutting their escape routes I say out loud, "Don't cut that little tree! It is probably older than the big one you want!" In other words, the little "sucker", mainly Western Hemlock trees with the umbrella shaped canopy or sometimes they look like what I call, "Grim Reaper Scythe" shape can be CENTURIES old and only a few inches in diameter! Surely loggers have seen sparks fly off their chains when cutting those little trees for an escape route and probably assuming it was dirt that caused it. Cut one and count the rings and you will see that they literally have been patiently waiting for the Giants around them to fall so they will have their own endless supply of light to thrive [finally]. Hemlocks are the most shade tolerant of all the PNW conifers, so most of these dwarf trees are of the Hemlock species, but other conifers can be similar. When they grow into what look like "80 year old Hemlocks" [typical age assessment by tree pros/24"dbh], they are well over 200 years old. After they finally get their light, they grow disease resistant and that Hemlock stick becomes a quality piece of wood! Fall one over a stump and nothing will break, not even the top!

I personally find it absolutely amazing that such a small tree can live that long and only be a few inches thick [diameter]. I would think there would be more data on this and that makes me wonder just how studied they are [or lack their of]. Since I have been on this site, it seems there are a lot of cogent and talented members who seem to have answers for a lot of related issues. Is there anyone who can provide more information on these special "freak of nature" trees? If not, at least we loggers might have several options for an escape route to cut now! [lol--but true]. I have nothing but respect for something that lives that long, especially without a whole lot of built in defenses from Nature! KEEP EM SHARP!

The "Stressed Dwarf/Minion Hemlock" trees only survive because they are being fed by the larger trees via the underground mycrorhizzeal(root fungus) network. Likely this arraingement evolved because it offers the advantage to the species of having ready to grow small trees when older trees die or are blown over.

The "Stressed Dwarf/Minion Hemlock" likely have identical genetics to the larger hemlock trees. It has been shown that the mycrorhizzeal network crosses the specie barrier.

As far as I know this feeding of the smaller trees by the larger trees is true of all trees.

Treebubba

 

[slabMan]

I am familiar with the symbiotic mycorrhiza relationships between trees [plants] and fungi, but I did not know the stressed dwarf needed nutrient assistance from fungi in order to survive. In my novice observations, these trees are the epitome of natures efficiency and do not need much of anything to live. I assumed it was just a matter of light for photosynthesis they had issues with and made their 'adjustments', forming their solar panel umbrella shaped canopies. The "minion" part comes from the perfect seedling propagation medium from the shed bark of mainly Doug Fir [because dfir shed bark] and other buttress conifers, they sprout out of.

 

[Chainsaw Pete]

We have a very wealthy guy living here in Ohio (I assume he is still here...I worked for him years ago). He was born out west, grew up in your neck of the woods, and after working for a couple of years, he bought a truckload (or carload...the bio I read was a long time ago, probably 50 yrs or so) of lumber and sorted through it, upgrading the lumber by careful selection. He bought more lumber with his profits and repeated this. The rest is history. I assume this is what you are talking about - pick the slow growth Hemlock wood out of the pile....

 

[Del_]

https://www.nature.com/articles/41557

 

[slabMan]

We have a very wealthy guy living here in Ohio (I assume he is still here...I worked for him years ago). He was born out west, grew up in your neck of the woods, and after working for a couple of years, he bought a truckload (or carload...the bio I read was a long time ago, probably 50 yrs or so) of lumber and sorted through it, upgrading the lumber by careful selection. He bought more lumber with his profits and repeated this. The rest is history. I assume this is what you are talking about - pick the slow growth Hemlock wood out of the pile....

I was wondering if these types of timber are acknowledged as anything other than your run of the mill 'White wood' or 'hem/fir' just as, say WRCedar or Douglas Fir in vertical grain or 'select' etc. They must not be common enough to hassle with sorting by the buyers. I havested a 5acre stand of "second growth Hemlock" and a vast percentage of the trees were of this former dwarf species. At least half of the trees had 200-250 rings and on trees that looked to be 80 years old [by size]. That is quite a big difference when estimating a tree to be 80 years old then to look at the rings to be 250 years old. The tight ringed trees all had a dark, solid heartwood with rings so tight it was impossible to see [without digital photo and zoom]. They were all from the rain forest of PNW, so maybe it is just more common in humid rainforests and not in other more sparse forests.
I am shaping a 125 year old, 3" diameter stick of these trees now to see how it would fair as an axe handle, but I think it will be too flexible for that, but we will see. There are plenty of these dwarf trees that don't survive and they seem to be snags for quite a long time after they are dead. They just do not rot like normal western Hemlocks do.

 

[slabMan]

I was wondering if these types of timber are acknowledged as anything other than your run of the mill 'White wood' or 'hem/fir' just as, say WRCedar or Douglas Fir in vertical grain or 'select' etc. They must not be common enough to hassle with sorting by the buyers. I havested a 5acre stand of "second growth Hemlock" and a vast percentage of the trees were of this former dwarf species. At least half of the trees had 200-250 rings and on trees that looked to be 80 years old [by size]. That is quite a big difference when estimating a tree to be 80 years old then to look at the rings to be 250 years old. The tight ringed trees all had a dark, solid heartwood with rings so tight it was impossible to see [without digital photo and zoom]. They were all from the rain forest of PNW, so maybe it is just more common in humid rainforests and not in other more sparse forests.
I am shaping a 125 year old, 3" diameter stick of these trees now to see how it would fair as an axe handle, but I think it will be too flexible for that, but we will see. There are plenty of these dwarf trees that don't survive and they seem to be snags for quite a long time after they are dead. They just do not rot like normal western Hemlocks do.

HERE is a bit from US Forest Service pertaining to what I am speaking of [but not much info].
https://www.dnr.wa.gov/publications/lm_hcp_west_oldgrowth_guide_wh_hires.pdf
scroll to page 87...
Figure 88. A 210 year-old hemlock that is scarcely 2 m tall in the south Cascades. Such suppressed trees form an umbrella shape — producing only a few leaves each year.

 

[Chainsaw Pete]

I was wondering if these types of timber are acknowledged as anything other than your run of the mill 'White wood' or 'hem/fir' just as, say WRCedar or Douglas Fir in vertical grain or 'select' etc. They must not be common enough to hassle with sorting by the buyers.

I suspect they would only be of value to a wood worker. I think I know the type of growth rings you are talking about, and most woodworkers that I know of, would prize more popular 'cabinet grade' hardwoods. You might look at a few woodworking forums and pose your questions there.

 

[nedsim]

Not quite the same thing, but I have a slice of a black spruce here that's 185 years old and about 4" diameter. In the 1990's a small group of us made several winter camping trips to Labrador and central Quebec. When I noticed how fine the growth rings were in the standing dead trees we were cutting for firewood I started bringing home a sample from each trip. This one is from the taiga along the Quebec/Labrador border. From what I saw, not unusual for the area. The tree was probably 10 feet tall above the snow, which might have 5 feet deep.

 

[Chainsaw Pete]

I have a slice of a black spruce here that's 185 years old and about 4" diameter.

Can you post a picture of the cut end?

 

[nedsim]

Can you post a picture of the cut end?

The graduations on the scale are 1/100" (.010 inch).

 

[Chainsaw Pete]

Pretty impressive, 1/50" growth rings. Woodworkers are all about the grain pattern, and durability. Pine is soft but was once used a lot because it was cheap and available. Since those trees grow slowly, and are small, I'd guess there is not much that would be commercially available. Local craftsmen and women might be interested, but beyond that? Who knows. Besides, exploiting a limited, slow growing species might spell doom for it. Man is, after all, the ultimate invasive species.

 

[slowp]

It's called being a suppressed tree. The tree hasn't kept up, or started growing after the main canopy was above it--shade tolerant trees do this, and it'll struggle along until it gets more sunlight or perhaps always struggle because it is too late to release it. You probably won't see as many as there used to be as the slow growers are cut during thinning operations.

Doug-fir is an early seral species. It seeds in after a disturbance, and in lower elevations along with alder. It grows, and sometime shade tolerant trees will start growing underneath the canopy. Slowly growing.

As for strength of the lumber? Well, the modern trees are thinned and managed for rapid growth which means fewer rings per inch, which isn't as strong as the old growth. Look at the rings on an old growth log and you can see when it had more sunlight, or less water, etc. You can still do this in campgrounds where hazard trees have to be removed.

Over on the east side of the Cascades, we've had discussions on whether the real genetically superior Ponderosa Pine are the ones that are successful in surviving the conditions of a rock. You'll see these gnarly trees in the dry, cliffy areas. The theory is, if they can survive in that climate and rock, shouldn't their cones be collected and planted in better soil conditions? Would we get better tree survival using their cones? Sounds like a good topic for a research paper.

 

[nedsim]

Pretty impressive, 1/50" growth rings. Woodworkers are all about the grain pattern, and durability. Pine is soft but was once used a lot because it was cheap and available. Since those trees grow slowly, and are small, I'd guess there is not much that would be commercially available. Local craftsmen and women might be interested, but beyond that? Who knows. Besides, exploiting a limited, slow growing species might spell doom for it. Man is, after all, the ultimate invasive species.

White pine is still widely used here in NE for trim, but it's not cheap anymore, and the wood from managed forests does not seem as durable as what was available even 50 years ago. Clear pine costs almost as much per BF as furniture grade teak did when I was working in boatyards in the 70's.

The place where I collected that cookie was pretty remote. A 130 mile train ride to get dropped the side of the tracks on the rail line that carries iron ore from Labrador City to the St. Lawrence. But there is a pulp mill near the St Lawrence end of the line that was hauling pulp logs a surprisingly long distance out of the interior where there are roads. Doesn't seem sustainable on a large scale.

 

[slabMan]

It's called being a suppressed tree. The tree hasn't kept up, or started growing after the main canopy was above it--shade tolerant trees do this, and it'll struggle along until it gets more sunlight or perhaps always struggle because it is too late to release it. You probably won't see as many as there used to be as the slow growers are cut during thinning operations.

Doug-fir is an early seral species. It seeds in after a disturbance, and in lower elevations along with alder. It grows, and sometime shade tolerant trees will start growing underneath the canopy. Slowly growing.

As for strength of the lumber? Well, the modern trees are thinned and managed for rapid growth which means fewer rings per inch, which isn't as strong as the old growth. Look at the rings on an old growth log and you can see when it had more sunlight, or less water, etc. You can still do this in campgrounds where hazard trees have to be removed.

Over on the east side of the Cascades, we've had discussions on whether the real genetically superior Ponderosa Pine are the ones that are successful in surviving the conditions of a rock. You'll see these gnarly trees in the dry, cliffy areas. The theory is, if they can survive in that climate and rock, shouldn't their cones be collected and planted in better soil conditions? Would we get better tree survival using their cones? Sounds like a good topic for a research paper.

That sounds like some good seed genes for breeding a more superior species to me! I didn't know these trees were specifically 'thinned'. Seems it would be more favorable to leave them be and let them do their thing once they get their light, after the giants fall down.

 

[slowp]

That sounds like some good seed genes for breeding a more superior species to me! I didn't know these trees were specifically 'thinned'. Seems it would be more favorable to leave them be and let them do their thing once they get their light, after the giants fall down.

They aren't growing fast enough for commercial harvests. It's economics.
It is also said that badly suppressed trees will never "do their thing" as they've been weakened for such a long time. They will continue to be small. Also, exposing a Hemlock, that's been growing in the shade, to full sun will likely damage or kill the tree. It's a major shock.

Partial sun is OK and that's why hemlock will eventually become more prevalent in an older, unmanaged stand--providing there is no large disturbance like a fire or big wind.

 

[slabMan]

Pretty impressive, 1/50" growth rings. Woodworkers are all about the grain pattern, and durability. Pine is soft but was once used a lot because it was cheap and available. Since those trees grow slowly, and are small, I'd guess there is not much that would be commercially available. Local craftsmen and women might be interested, but beyond that? Who knows. Besides, exploiting a limited, slow growing species might spell doom for it. Man is, after all, the ultimate invasive species.

That was my point earlier that these trees [logs] are commercially available [as former dwarf trees] and getting mixed in with the run of the mill Hemlock timber logs.