Looking for cheap overqualified climbers? Stop looking.

[conner1129]

“Hiring climbers 30/hr minimum 3 years experience” if you are making a post like this legitimately dont bother. The only guys really going to work for someone else are new and probably have 0 experience climbing for someone else. If they did why would they work for you? You arent even offering commission and if you did you would try to make the climber do a 50/50 split then pay each of his ground guys 10 percent so he takes home 30% 3,000x.30=300 so you really are paying him that. 300/10=30. Vs of they do it themselves they can pay each of their ground guys like 300-500 a piece and still take home 6 times what you are paying them. “Oh but insurance” insurance can be covered in one job a million dollar insurance policy is like 3k a year from what i have seen. I imagine dumb people don't last long as climbers, so maybe don't treat them like they are dumb. Paying a climber 300$ a day is spitting in their mouth and asking them to say thank you.

 

[sundance]

So, what are you suggesting is an appropriate pay rate?

 

[conner1129]

So, what are you suggesting is an appropriate pay rate?

Actually 30% would be fine lmao i cant do math ig. i am gonna buy rope and jump from a tree 30% on a 3000$ job is 900. I was drunk. 300 a day is not enough and everyone practically speaking knows it. 10% on a job where you have a realistic chance to die isnt gonna cut it i dont think.

 

[Marley5]

Many of my long time friends were tree trimmers / logging, most retired now.
10% chance of dieing seems pessimistic.

Had one friend fall and left crippled but not one life lost around here.
More tree stand deaths.

Equipment has come a long ways, I'd be curious about the actual percentage of casualties.

 

[sundance]

Actually 30% would be fine lmao i cant do math ig. i am gonna buy rope and jump from a tree 30% on a 3000$ job is 900. I was drunk. 300 a day is not enough and everyone practically speaking knows it. 10% on a job where you have a realistic chance to die isnt gonna cut it i dont think.

Sound like you're drunk again. Try a response sober.

 

[EchoShindaiwaMakitaDolmar]

Input from professional climbing arborist and new member @Lee the Treebarian would be interesting.

https://www.arboristsite.com/threads/new-member-old-climber-looking-for-work.377446/#post-8350319

 

[conner1129]

Sound like you're drunk again. Try a response sober.

Only ever post drunk

 

[conner1129]

Sound like you're drunk again. Try a response sober.

900 a day is reasonable other wise your employees would leave the way i plan on doing it if i ever get to that point is 50% to the climber 10% to the two ground guys then i keep 30%. Realistically if you dont want to learn to climb i wouldn't hire you. 300$ for doing nothing is reasonable and would give the climber a reason to not go start his own company. Now if the climber is new its a different story but you guys pay good experienced climbers what you pay new climbers. Realistically once i get my business set up i could go work for my self 3 days a month and make more than you would pay me for working more. It just doesnt make sense. I plan on contract climbing too. Employers are just greedy. You shouldnt really be making that much more than your employees unless you own a bug company. Growth/retention model vs parasitic model. Its really dependent on most people just not wanting to go through the head ache of starting a business.

 

[conner1129]

900 a day is reasonable other wise your employees would leave the way i plan on doing it if i ever get to that point is 50% to the climber 10% to the two ground guys then i keep 30%. Realistically if you dont want to learn to climb i wouldn't hire you. 300$ for doing nothing is reasonable and would give the climber a reason to not go start his own company. Now if the climber is new its a different story but you guys pay good experienced climbers what you pay new climbers. Realistically once i get my business set up i could go work for my self 3 days a month and make more than you would pay me for working more. It just doesnt make sense. I plan on contract climbing too. Employers are just greedy. You shouldnt really be making that much more than your employees unless you own a bug company. Growth/retention model vs parasitic model. Its really dependent on most people just not wanting to go through the head ache of starting a business.

also you should still be climbing when you are running it. if you are at the age you cant climb anymore and didnt grow your business enough to be able to afford this model then that is honestly a you problem. The climber does the work, all you do is provide the work. 30% fee for finding you the job is reasonable.

 

[sundance]

900 a day is reasonable other wise your employees would leave the way i plan on doing it if i ever get to that point is 50% to the climber 10% to the two ground guys then i keep 30%. Realistically if you dont want to learn to climb i wouldn't hire you. 300$ for doing nothing is reasonable and would give the climber a reason to not go start his own company. Now if the climber is new its a different story but you guys pay good experienced climbers what you pay new climbers. Realistically once i get my business set up i could go work for my self 3 days a month and make more than you would pay me for working more. It just doesnt make sense. I plan on contract climbing too. Employers are just greedy. You shouldnt really be making that much more than your employees unless you own a bug company. Growth/retention model vs parasitic model. Its really dependent on most people just not wanting to go through the head ache of starting a business.

Who supplies equipment. insurance, maintenance, etc.?

 

[Jed1124]

 

[conner1129]

expensive part is tractors and dump trailers. Are they even really necessary? Insurance is whatever again it should 3k per crew roughly if it scales like that which i really doubt i bet as you get insurance for more people it gets cheaper in proportion to the standard 3kish for a 2-3 man operation. 900 a day lets say 5 jobs a month per crew at the least. 900 x 5 4,500 a month x 11 49,500 passive per year per crew. -3,000 per crew ins. 46,500 - workers comp is confusing and state based some states it is insane, some others not so much. a tractor needing to have more than 10k in maintenance per year unless someone is miss using it in which case you fire them. I dont see you having 10k on maintenance if you have a damn bucket truck a dump trailer and a chipper. If you break my **** you are fired. Let say it is10k per year 46,500 -10,000 36,500 passive per crew if you cant climb any more lets say you are 45+? Again its about not squeezing everything out of crew and retaining employees to have more crews. And 10k maintenance still sounds high to me break my **** in a dumb way and you are ******* FIRED. Id make them use their own ******* truck, they get paid enough. Make them use their own so i dont have to pay insurance on the trucks. And you really shouldnt need 1 tractor or chipper per crew anyways tbh. 2 or 3 between 5 crews should be fine. The goals is to scale if you dont scale before you loose the ability to climb it wont work. You could also scale with the typical %’s climber gets 10% 5% for each ground guy until you can afford to scale with a better cut for the climber. Once you have like 10 crews you should be able to scale regardless. The percentages were **** off numbers anyways the point is employers are greedy and practically speaking price fix wages the same way they do products. “Im paying you market rate” the thing about market rate is it never has an incentive for prices to decline or wages to rise unless some retard comes along and says “lets pay our employees 50%” that retard would probably be short lived.

 

[nedsim]

some retard comes along and says “lets pay our employees 50%” that retard would probably be short lived.

Avoid the risk of an aneurysm, for you or any potential employers, and stick to working alone.

 

[capetrees]

900 a day is reasonable other wise your employees would leave the way i plan on doing it if i ever get to that point is 50% to the climber 10% to the two ground guys then i keep 30%. Realistically if you dont want to learn to climb i wouldn't hire you. 300$ for doing nothing is reasonable and would give the climber a reason to not go start his own company. Now if the climber is new its a different story but you guys pay good experienced climbers what you pay new climbers. Realistically once i get my business set up i could go work for my self 3 days a month and make more than you would pay me for working more. It just doesnt make sense. I plan on contract climbing too. Employers are just greedy. You shouldnt really be making that much more than your employees unless you own a bug company. Growth/retention model vs parasitic model. Its really dependent on most people just not wanting to go through the head ache of starting a business.

I gotta ask.

Where do you stand in all of this? Are you a business owner? Are you a contract climber? Are you an employee of a tree care company? It says in your profile that you're an aspiring arborist but other than that, whats your current role?

 

[capetrees]

expensive part is tractors and dump trailers. Are they even really necessary? Insurance is whatever again it should 3k per crew roughly if it scales like that which i really doubt i bet as you get insurance for more people it gets cheaper in proportion to the standard 3kish for a 2-3 man operation. 900 a day lets say 5 jobs a month per crew at the least. 900 x 5 4,500 a month x 11 49,500 passive per year per crew. -3,000 per crew ins. 46,500 - workers comp is confusing and state based some states it is insane, some others not so much. a tractor needing to have more than 10k in maintenance per year unless someone is miss using it in which case you fire them. I dont see you having 10k on maintenance if you have a damn bucket truck a dump trailer and a chipper. If you break my **** you are fired. Let say it is10k per year 46,500 -10,000 36,500 passive per crew if you cant climb any more lets say you are 45+? Again its about not squeezing everything out of crew and retaining employees to have more crews. And 10k maintenance still sounds high to me break my **** in a dumb way and you are ******* FIRED. Id make them use their own ******* truck, they get paid enough. Make them use their own so i dont have to pay insurance on the trucks. And you really shouldnt need 1 tractor or chipper per crew anyways tbh. 2 or 3 between 5 crews should be fine. The goals is to scale if you dont scale before you loose the ability to climb it wont work. You could also scale with the typical %’s climber gets 10% 5% for each ground guy until you can afford to scale with a better cut for the climber. Once you have like 10 crews you should be able to scale regardless. The percentages were **** off numbers anyways the point is employers are greedy and practically speaking price fix wages the same way they do products. “Im paying you market rate” the thing about market rate is it never has an incentive for prices to decline or wages to rise unless some retard comes along and says “lets pay our employees 50%” that retard would probably be short lived.

 

[conner1129]

I gotta ask.

Where do you stand in all of this? Are you a business owner? Are you a contract climber? Are you an employee of a tree care company? It says in your profile that you're an aspiring arborist but other than that, whats your current role?

I am a Nietzschean bugman

 

[conner1129]

the %’s might be off but 30/hr is still ridiculous you are not paying even 30% of yearly revenue on insurance and maintenance. What seemed so off?

 

[conner1129]

Avoid the risk of an aneurysm, for you or any potential employers, and stick to working alone.

Would never talk this about work it would inappropriate, and disrespectful tbh. Dont bite the hand and yada yada.

 

[sundance]

I'm not in the tree business, but my experience has been that most workers think the owners are making a fortune with no clue what the costs of business actually are. Believe me, all of what you aren't seeing in wages doesn't equate to owners profit. When you start your business(based as you state) I'll be interesting in seeing how it all works out. Sounds like your plan is to have a large number of crews working for you and dreams of the massive profits you'll be making. Good luck as reality sets in.

 

[conner1129]

I'm not in the tree business, but my experience has been that most workers think the owners are making a fortune with no clue what the costs of business actually are. Believe me, all of what you aren't seeing in wages doesn't equate to owners profit. When you start your business(based as you state) I'll be interesting in seeing how it all works out. Sounds like your plan is to have a large number of crews working for you and dreams of the massive profits you'll be making. Good luck as reality sets in.

The profits would be small you would to have like 20 crews to make it work.