Looking for cheap overqualified climbers? Stop looking.

[EchoShindaiwaMakitaDolmar]

I'm not in the tree business, but my experience has been that most workers think the owners are making a fortune with no clue what the costs of business actually are. Believe me, all of what you aren't seeing in wages doesn't equate to owners profit. When you start your business(based as you state) I'll be interesting in seeing how it all works out. Sounds like your plan is to have a large number of crews working for you and dreams of the massive profits you'll be making. Good luck as reality sets in.

The problem is actually cultural- a smug sense of entitlement along with contempt for capitalism, success, and the American way. All of that combines to make people think they're victims of others instead of accountable for their personal choices by free will.

 

[capetrees]

I am a Nietzschean bugman

so you're a low on the totempole underling with no skills, thinking he's got all the ideas and wants all the money but no real way to prove himself or his plan.

got it

 

[Woodtroll]

The problem is actually cultural- a smug sense of entitlement along with contempt for capitalism, success, and the American way. All of that combines to make people think they're victims of others instead of accountable for their personal choices by free will.

Very well stated.

 

[OM617YOTA]

Realistically once i get my business set up

Do that, and run it for a few years. Then come back with the big talk.

 

[sundance]

The profits would be small you would to have like 20 crews to make it work.

A few posts back you were making $36,500 per crew. Now it takes 20 crews to make a living? By your figures that would be $730,000/year.

 

[ClimberBusinessman]

It depends entirely on whether you are a W2 employee, where the company runs you on payroll, and has the general liability and worker's compensation insurance coverage, and possibly health insurance, and (hopefully) provides all climbing and rigging gear and saws, or whether you are a contract climber that provides all your own gear and insurance. $30-45 per hour is excellent and quite competitive if you are an employee where worker's comp, health insurance, and all gear is provided. If you are a contract climber, that is entirely different. If you are a legitimate contract climber, you climb for several companies, so your schedule might have off days/gaps in the schedule. Also you have to provide all your own insurance (both general liability as well as a worker's comp policy, if you want to be hire-able by as many companies as possible), and climbing and possibly rigging gear. In that case where you are a contract climber, you might be able to get around $100 per hour on the job, especially if you are good at climbing with crane work.

 

[conner1129]

It depends entirely on whether you are a W2 employee, where the company runs you on payroll, and has the general liability and worker's compensation insurance coverage, and possibly health insurance, and (hopefully) provides all climbing and rigging gear and saws, or whether you are a contract climber that provides all your own gear and insurance. $30-45 per hour is excellent and quite competitive if you are an employee where worker's comp, health insurance, and all gear is provided. If you are a contract climber, that is entirely different. If you are a legitimate contract climber, you climb for several companies, so your schedule might have off days/gaps in the schedule. Also you have to provide all your own insurance (both general liability as well as a worker's comp policy, if you want to be hire-able by as many companies as possible), and climbing and possibly rigging gear. In that case where you are a contract climber, you might be able to get around $100 per hour on the job, especially if you are good at climbing with crane work.

I never said the plan was to make a **** ton off of like 5 crews my guys. I even explicitly said it was a growth model. Aka the goal is to poach all of the employees that either cant or dont want to start companies. Thats also why i said you would have to climb while owning the company. The goal is extreme growth not on the price side but the supply side. Price would have to be equal so the profit loss would have to come from the owner. Eventually one can assume your company would grow faster than others because you pay more. Retention is higher, employee motivation is higher. You wouldnt need 20 crews to make it profitable but once you hit 20 you would be able to open branches with entirely passive income. Then the growth rate would be exponential. Its hard to grow if you can barely keep people employed.

 

[conner1129]

@capetrees (for some reason i replied wrong) That isnt what a bugman is and it was an ironic statement, read more.

 

[conner1129]

The problem is actually cultural- a smug sense of entitlement along with contempt for capitalism, success, and the American way. All of that combines to make people think they're victims of others instead of accountable for their personal choices by free will.

You assume that i am embittered by something, assuming that i think i deserve something. This was never about me making more. Which is not the point but i can see why you would infer that. I dont expect other people to do it. But when you see post like “why doesnt anyone want to work? we pay 30$/hr” im only providing a response. Also your sentiment is not entirely wrong I am a capitalist but capitalism at the extreme can and has become parasitic. Not necessarily in climbing or trades but at the current rate these will become that way as well. Its not embittered, im not mad about what i make or dont make. My numbers may well be off but the point remains the same. It is simply a better business model for employment and retention. Once you get past a certain size it would propel its own growth. People are so focused on extracting every penny that they fail to see how that behavior inhibits growth.

 

[EchoShindaiwaMakitaDolmar]

@capetrees (for some reason i replied wrong) That isnt what a bugman is and it was an ironic statement, read more.

"Nietzsche warned us of the Bugmen who would inhabit the cities in the twilight days of western civilization. In Thus Spake Zarathustra he describes the Bugman in great detail:

I see and have seen worse things, and divers things so hideous, that I should neither like to speak of all matters, nor even keep silent about some of them: namely, men who lack everything, except that they have too much of one thing—men who are nothing more than a big eye, or a big mouth, or a big belly, or something else big,—reversed cripples, I call such men.


And when I came out of my solitude, and for the first time passed over this bridge, then I could not trust mine eyes, but looked again and again, and said at last: "That is an ear! An ear as big as a man!" I looked still more attentively—and actually there did move under the ear something that was pitiably small and poor and slim. And in truth this immense ear was perched on a small thin stalk—the stalk, however, was a man! A person putting a glass to his eyes, could even recognise further a small envious countenance, and also that a bloated soullet dangled at the stalk. The people told me, however, that the big ear was not only a man, but a great man, a genius. But I never believed in the people when they spake of great men—and I hold to my belief that it was a reversed cripple, who had too little of everything, and too much of one thing."

 

[ElevatorGuy]

Anybody else getting Kenny (LP) vibes???

 

[conner1129]

"Nietzsche warned us of the Bugmen who would inhabit the cities in the twilight days of western civilization. In Thus Spake Zarathustra he describes the Bugman in great detail:

I see and have seen worse things, and divers things so hideous, that I should neither like to speak of all matters, nor even keep silent about some of them: namely, men who lack everything, except that they have too much of one thing—men who are nothing more than a big eye, or a big mouth, or a big belly, or something else big,—reversed cripples, I call such men.


And when I came out of my solitude, and for the first time passed over this bridge, then I could not trust mine eyes, but looked again and again, and said at last: "That is an ear! An ear as big as a man!" I looked still more attentively—and actually there did move under the ear something that was pitiably small and poor and slim. And in truth this immense ear was perched on a small thin stalk—the stalk, however, was a man! A person putting a glass to his eyes, could even recognise further a small envious countenance, and also that a bloated soullet dangled at the stalk. The people told me, however, that the big ear was not only a man, but a great man, a genius. But I never believed in the people when they spake of great men—and I hold to my belief that it was a reversed cripple, who had too little of everything, and too much of one thing."

You clearly didn’t read the book where did you copy and paste this from? Its a bad source go read the whole chapter it has nothing to do with last men. Quoting a paragraph from him without the entire chapter is like quoting the Old Testament without the new. Also the bugman comes from the prologue ya dunce. Bugman=Last man.

 

[conner1129]

https://www.poliscirumors.com/topic/rise-of-the-planet-of-the-bugmen
Already found where got the analysis you should read more too. Its a hard book to read tbh dont blame you for just clicking the first link you saw. The chapter is called redemption if you want to read it. That isnt really representative though.

 

[EchoShindaiwaMakitaDolmar]

You clearly didn’t read the book where did you copy and paste this from? Its a bad source go read the whole chapter it has nothing to do with last men. Quoting a paragraph from him without the entire chapter is like quoting the Old Testament without the new. Also the bugman comes from the prologue ya dunce. Bugman=Last man.

Ya dunce, I never said I read the book!

As intended, I triggered you.

 

[conner1129]

Ya dunce, I never said I read the book!

As intended, I triggered you.

its honestly a dumb book, Obscure, not worth it. 10/10 would not recommend. If you want good books try The International Jew, Diary of a Writer, The Brothers Karamazov, Demons, On the Jews and Their Lies (martin luther good for protestants). Pre ww2 books are much better than modern books.

 

[Fulcrum Tree Felling]

I am a Nietzschean bugman

OK, Zoomer

 

[diver64]

The OP left something important. There are a large number of people out there that do not want to own their own business with the headaches involved. They are quite happy to get a reasonable paycheck and go home every day to not spend all their free time working on the business, drumming up more business, doing estimates etc. I drove a truck for over 30yrs. Never wanted to be an Owner Operator as I wanted to park the truck at the end of the day and walk off for my free time.

 

[capetrees]

@capetrees (for some reason i replied wrong) That isnt what a bugman is and it was an ironic statement, read more.

so you got stoned one night and read a book that your stoner pal recommened to you. Nietzsche, real deep stuff.

Good for you.

Once you sobered up, you came out of it with these ideas???

Put down the pipe. You have no concept of real business management or ownership. How does your plan deal with employee personality issues? what happens when the lead climber for a crew or two can't show for the day? How about instruction of the employees? And once these guys are educated on the sysyetm, what stops them from grabbing a few guys from you and starting their own companies now that they also know your tactics? How about equipment breakdowns and fleet maintenance for 20 guys or 20 crews? And when work does slow down as a result of your saturation of the area you work in, what then? Do the guys rake your leaves at your house or paint your deck till the phone rings? And who is it that will meet with the potential clients and how do you deal with bad reviews or complaints which will hurt you companies reputation? How much will you pay for insurance? Do you actually have a mechanic for all the equpiment for all of these crews? And whats the turnover rate for your equipment? I guess once it's paid for, it's gonna run forever?

clueless

 

[capetrees]

its honestly a dumb book, Obscure, not worth it. 10/10 would not recommend. If you want good books try The International Jew, Diary of a Writer, The Brothers Karamazov, Demons, On the Jews and Their Lies (martin luther good for protestants). Pre ww2 books are much better than modern books.

you don't recommend it but reference it in a description of yourself.

10/10 I would noit recommend your posts or thoughts on the matter of business management and ownership.

And thats coming from a guy that's owned a small company for 20 years

 

[conner1129]

you don't recommend it but reference it in a description of yourself.

10/10 I would noit recommend your posts or thoughts on the matter of business management and ownership.

And thats coming from a guy that's owned a small company for 20 years

“Small” i bet it isnt the only thing though. Also why is it still small? Didn’t want to grow it? How small is small? I asked a woman that once and she laughed at me.