Looking to expand into fertilization...

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Ed Roland

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I own and operate a very small company in Columbia, SC. I perform high end work and charge a premium, as there are few ISA certified arborist in this area. I do not want to spray chemicals (thats why i left Bartlett as an IPM tech.) I do want to grow my business into other profittable areas other than the climbing work. Anyone out there offer a fert program?
 
we do micro-injection and soil drenching......eventually we will probably have to bite the bullet and get a spray-rig...we had one years ago and got a lawsuit filed by some AHOLE:dizzy: the experience was not sweet...... so we stopped spraying.....we do ok without it but the money is in spraying because the costs are so low...
 
If you want high end, science based service, then pumping N is not the thing. Start looking into soil amending, basal excavation and other rehabilitaation methods to turn stressed trees around.

It will not have the margins that squirting urea into the dripline area, but it is more professional.
 
please explain

If you want high end, science based service, then pumping N is not the thing. Start looking into soil amending, basal excavation and other rehabilitaation methods to turn stressed trees around.

It will not have the margins that squirting urea into the dripline area, but it is more professional.

What are you really saying? I know what you're trying to say but I can't hear you. Do you work for the big B by any chance?
 
a good start would be a unit w a 300 gal tank plus w agitation, i prefer a tow behind, you don t need hi pressure hose for a 10 to 15 gal pumper, a snap on gun, a doggett catalogue and ansi standard for fertilization. plenty of seminars and ref mtl on fertilization out there. i send a solicitation to every client i find a need for this service in the summerduring the winter and offer a prepaid discount. it always amazesme how much people trust me and gives a nice cash flow addit in the off season. we fit the fertilization in on light rain days around budbreak (average budbreak for most trees on their property). repeat customers and peripheral ones add up when they notice the results like anything else. it doesn t get much easier than fertilizing, except maybe spraying but like you noted you re not sucking down nasty stuff. there is always some call for fall fertilizing but it is hard to fit in sometimes and you got to worry about pump freezing.
 
Anyone out there offer a fert program?
Yes I live up the road from you (4 hours) and I work with the roots a lot. I agree with JPS and treewisemen. Overfertilizing can be as harmful and unethical as overpruning/topping. You gotta look at all the tree's needs, and understand dose.

The trunk, branches and leaves are the most obvious parts of the plants to examine, but the landscape below ground is equally important. Armed with $100 in tools and following a few basic principles, arborists can learn a lot about how the earth surrounding a tree’s roots is affecting tree vitality.

A pH meter is a very useful soil-measuring tool, reading the soil’s reaction (pH), as described in the December 2006 CEU article in Arborist News. A soil probe is a simple T-shaped tool that is pressed or twisted into the earth and extracts a core of soil. This core of soil typically contains an A horizon below the mulch, turf, or groundcover; a B horizon below that where the organic matter blends into the native soil; and a C layer of less permeable subsoil, the parent material from which the soil was formed. Many of the nonwoody roots are typically found in the A horizon. White roots extending into the B horizon indicates a high level of oxygen there, where the tree can harvest enough resources to fuel its various functions.

Urban soils are often disturbed, with a jumble of material from different horizons interspersed. Touching the soil also can reveal much about its properties. For example, if moist soil is rolled into a cylinder and it crumbles easily, it may be low in clay. A sour smell indicates anaerobic, low-oxygen conditions hostile to root growth, while a sweet smell can signify that beneficial, aerobic bacteria and fungi are at work. A hand lens is useful in finding fine roots, mycorrhizal strands, and other interesting things, such as soil insects.
Earthworms, arthropods, and other organisms aerate the soil and convert organic matter and minerals into forms more available to the tree. A number of references have reported that one cup of undisturbed native soil may contain the following: 200 billion bacteria, 20 billion protozoa, 100,000 meters of fungi, 100,000 nematodes and 50,000 arthropods. There are ways to encourage beneficial soil organisms:
• Use organic mulches for weed control, and amend the soil with composted organic material to provide a food source for soil organisms.
• Avoid over irrigation and **excessive use of fertilizers**, so the organisms do not drown or burn.
• Irrigate during periods of drought. Soil organism activity may be reduced due to dry soil conditions that are common in certain times of the year.
• Avoid unwarranted pesticide applications. Some fungicides, insecticides, and herbicides are harmful to various types of soil organisms.
• Use organic mulches to reduce soil compaction forces, moderate temperature, and maintain soil oxygen levels needed by beneficial soil organisms and roots.
Uncompacted soils have less root rot because they have better drainage, thanks to more pore space that air and water travel through. This pore space helps define the soil’s structure.
 
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Very nice feedback. I originally had in mind an urea formaldahyde product agitated into a slurry and injected @ 200psi @ 3' intervals under the drip line. Lets face it, this can be done @ anytime during the year since it is dependant on soil temp. (it's interesting the descrepancy between what an horticulturalist and an arborist say) and i can inject this slow release @ anytime of the year making my winter more productive. I found a small spray rig @ Northern tool that can reach the desired pressure of 200psi for $2500. Without agitation. My main concern is the investment, bidding, and logistics. And yes of course, soil management begins with a soil test! I will need to incorporate that into my price.
 
One of the problems with urea is that the plant needs to fix it before it becomes available.

A plant can take it up, but it kicks out carbon to do so.

Usinogn ammonia fert avoids this stress because it is readily availble.

Another problem is that it has been shown that higher soil N not only reduces mycorriza activity, but higher leaf N increases the risk of pathogens. One of the paper companies here in WI had been putting the pulp waste on their timber stands thinking that the N would be good. they found that it was being taken up readily, but that aall the trees with higher N had heavy Diplodia damage.

How about a low N aged manure? Broader spectrum of minor elements that a tree needs, could you find a maserated seaweed product somewhere by the cost?
 
More agreement for the statements by Mike, Treeseer, John and others. Look in the woods and your neighborhood. Do you see any trees that need fertilizer? I know adding it will make trees grow faster, but do they need to? Adding potatoes and candy will make me grow faster, but it is not needed. Until we put some ethics into our industry, we are going to have a hard time getting treated and paid like professionals. I drive my students nuts asking them "why?" all the time. If you don't know why you are doing something, don't do it.

Even soil tests are somewhat suspect, unless they are comparing two areas of soil in the same area, one of which contains a healthy plant and one a stressed plant. We do not yet have the magic numbers that grow the perfect tree. Most of our recommendations are based on agricultural uses, which are designed to maximize seed or biomass production on a crop which is very short lived. We do not want our trees to be fast growing short lived crops in our lawns.

So why are you going to fertilize the tree???? To make money is not the answer for a professional.
 
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Using a product that is readily available to the plant limits my application window to times when the soil is warm enough to sustain active growth. I think a slow release product injected into the soil in the winter will profit enable my business @ a time when I am historically slow. I already have to overcome the education hurdle. Many of the good people of this part of the country dont understand the need to fertilize the trees in their landscape. They remove all the clippings from the turf and lime every square inch of their property. I still have to turn down topping jobs. I want to promote and sell a simple 2 year slow release fertilizer program ie, soil management. Do u guys offer a fert program to your customers?
 
"So why are you going to fertilize the tree???? To make money is not the answer for a professional."
Uh, Underwor, u must be joking. If so thats pretty funny, if not then u gotta know teaching erroneous facts is as unprofessional as topping.
The Arborist Certification Study Guide Chapter 5, page 47, says the following "For trees growing in a forest site, elements are usually present in sufficient quantities in the soil. Landscape tree or urban trees, however, may be growing in soils that do not contain sufficient available elements for satisfactory growth and development. Leaves and other plant parts are regularly raked up and removed, disrupting nutrient cycling and the deposition of organic matter back into the soil."
I could go on forever quoting the literature stating how landscape and urban trees could use a soil management program. Where do you teach and what is the subject, it can't be arboriculture.:dizzy:
 
I could go on forever quoting the literature stating how landscape and urban trees could use a soil management program.

I can bring up studies that show that regular NPK applications will reduce a trees tolerance to disease and pests. One such study here in WI showed an several fold increase in tent catapillars on ferted crab apples vs same sit/species cabs that wer not treated.

Then the afore mentioned plantation pine study.

I'm not against soil management, I just do nto think there is good science behind urea applications. It's just a prosess coming from rotational crop agronomy that had the intent of increasing food yeild in an annual plant.

There are some studies with fruit and nut crop trees, but they are managed in such different ways from landscape trees that it is hard to compare. Pruning regimines, sprays and irrigation would be prohibatively expensive for your average home owner.

As for the ISA manual, they are allways a few years behind leading edge research because of the nature of such a publication.
 
Well, try this on for size there John Paul. We know plants need 16 essential elements to grow and produce viable seed. 3 of which is are readily available, that being your carbon, hydrogen, and o2. The remaining elements are absorbed from the soil via the root system. But we know all this, right? Now Mr. John Paul and Mr. Underwor want us to believe there is no need for supplemental addition of elements. So when u see yellowing of leaf blade and the Research lab test indicate a PH in range but a deficiency of Copper, Iron, Manganese and Zinc, dont bother introducing these elements, right? So an urban street tree in a sidewalk planting gets everything it needs, right? From where the concrete? Look fellas get your heads out of your butts. Check the PH. Perform foliar analysis, then add the missing or deficient elements. You say thats wrong and unprofessional. I say it's good horticulture and a money maker. The point of this thread wasn't to debate whether plants need supplemental elements. That one should be obvious to everyone @ this site. I just wanted to know how my fellow pros broke into the fert business.:bang:
 
weasel,
I am watching this thread because I am in the same boat as you.

I THINK the reason the discussion could be worthwhile to us is this:
When you are marketing fertilization, it can pay huge dividends to give the client a full picture. If I refuse fertilization to a client after seeing the soil test (that they paid for)--sure, I lost a job there, but now they know I'm respecting them as a client, not treating them solely as an easy income source. Guess who they are gonna call when the need other work done. Guess who they are going to recommend to their friends?

On the other hand if I recommend urea formaldehyde for everybody because that is what I have in the tank...when they are not overly impressed with my work so they get other bids next year and one of those guys runs a soil test and shows them (with results from an independent lab) why they do not need more N -or why if might actually cause further harm to their tree-, guess who's business card they are going to tear up. Guess who they are going to tell their friends has been ripping them off, etc...

Which of those do we want to be? If your only after quick cash and no long-term reputation, go for #2. I want to establish myself as an expert who can justify a premium...I'm not going to rip people off.

So....now assuming that the need for soil test-based fertilization has been well discussed:
I am still curious how others have implemented it? (Equipment?, Products?, etc...)
 
On the other hand if I recommend urea formaldehyde for everybody because that is what I have in the tank...when they are not overly impressed with my work so they get other bids next year and one of those guys runs a soil test and shows them (with results from an independent lab) why they do not need more N -or why if might actually cause further harm to their tree-, guess who's business card they are going to tear up. Guess who they are going to tell their friends has been ripping them off, etc...

Which of those do we want to be? If your only after quick cash and no long-term reputation, go for #2. I want to establish myself as an expert who can justify a premium...I'm not going to rip people off.

Who said anything about ripping people off? Is it the urea F? Is that whats going on here? I dont consider Urea F a bad product. The brand name I want to use contains a ratio of 3:1:1 nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium. It also contains the microelements iron, manganese, copper and zinc along with a wetting agent to aid in distribution. A slow release product injected below the turf will ensure a constant supply of elements. You can throw some compost tea on the roots of that 65 year old declining post oak with construction damage and the tree will laugh @ u! ANYWAY...hahaha all this fert talk is wearing me down. If you want to hire a herd of yak to piss on the tree thats fine by me.:D I just want more info on how u guys got started fertalizing and some tips and what not.
 
Who said anything about ripping people off?
What I mean is: When a client is depending on you for expertise, selling them a product or service they don't need is ripping them off (for example asking somebody to pay you to put extra nitrogen in a nitrogen-rich soil...). I'd say the same thing about any other treatment we do (pruning, pest control, etc...).

I don't have any inherent problems with urea formaldehyde...I just don't think it is a cure-all -- no treatment is. Used under appropraite circumstances, it will do well. I think your question is (at least mine is at this point): Is that the product that will have the most benefit in the broadest range of circumstances?

Like I said, I am in the same boat as you and was just trying to apply what I think folks here are saying. No intent beyond that...
 

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