Lowering/guiding rope

[coolbrze]

Looking to purchase some new lowering/guiding rope and wanted to see what you all use. Most of our takedowns are trees in the 65-80' range so lets say 80' would be the max tree height, but maybe I should get a little longer than double? If so, how long do you recommend? Also, who makes a good rope and what kind shoud we get?

 

[GIZROID]

Rigging rope.

CB are you going to be using an arborist block and a friction device or natural crotch and tree wraps? If using a block I would go with a double braid such as Samson's Stable Braid. I prefer the 9/16" size because I can get 5 wraps on my GRCS. This rope loses approx. 1/2 of it's if run through a natural crotch because the core and cover share 1/2 the load. If going natural crotch go with a 3 strand, 16 strand, or a 12 strand solid braid. I prefer the 200' length because the end of the rope will become worn and will need to be trimmed. It's also not a bad idea to get a spliced eye on one end if you are interested in doing any knotless rigging.

 

[tree md]

I use Samson 3/4" stable braid. It's like $230 for 150' and like $300 for 200'. I don't do spliced eye. I'm an old school knot guy. I use a block and natural crotch with this rope. I've been using this for bull rope for like 18 years... Not the same rope of course but the same brand.

 

[Rickytree]

CB are you going to be using an arborist block and a friction device or natural crotch and tree wraps? If using a block I would go with a double braid such as Samson's Stable Braid. I prefer the 9/16" size because I can get 5 wraps on my GRCS. This rope loses approx. 1/2 of it's if run through a natural crotch because the core and cover share 1/2 the load. If going natural crotch go with a 3 strand, 16 strand, or a 12 strand solid braid. I prefer the 200' length because the end of the rope will become worn and will need to be trimmed. It's also not a bad idea to get a spliced eye on one end if you are interested in doing any knotless rigging.

Hey Gizroid, why would you really want 5 wraps, isn't 4 usually enough? and are you lifting or pulling? Just curious.

 

[JeffL]

Hey Gizroid, why would you really want 5 wraps, isn't 4 usually enough? and are you lifting or pulling? Just curious.

I've locked off pieces with 5 wraps. Old school porty and 3/4" stable braid. Lowering large pieces that couldnt hit the ground, or we couldnt let drop much. Shock loads the hell out of the rope, but you can always buy new rope.

I'm going to purchase some 5/8" or 3/4" stable braid in addition to the 1/2" I already have, and love that. Have some big pines to take down in the near future I believe, so would rather go with the larger rope and not have to worry about beating on my 1/2" which stays relegated to semi-lighter rigging duties.

Coolbrz, do it right the first time, in the end, its cheaper and easier than going cheap to begin with, and then end up buying the "good" stuff anyways. Set yourself up with a decent pulley or block, a few eye or whoopie slings, a porta-wrap, medium at least, if not a large, and some good bull rope.

Also consider that if the trees are 80' max, you'll never actually be at that 80' mark. Tops coming off will always (well, usually) be rigged accordingly below whats being cut off. So if you're taking a 10' top off an 80' tree, your rope is really only running 70' up, minus the length for knots, and wraps on the porty. You'd probably be fine with a 150'er, but if you're really worried about it, step up and grab 200'.

My .02

 

[Recon Freak]

True blue/Stable braid

1/2" True blue has always fit the bill for alot of our rigging pulley or natural crotch. We use 5/8" Stable braid in block for the Big stuff!

 

[tomtrees58]

man don't cut your self short take down a 80' tree with a 80' rope ?? not start with a 120 ' tom trees

 

[Slvrmple72]

200' 1/2 Samson Stablebraid (10k+ Tensile strength)
150' 9/16 Samson Stablebraid (13.3k Tensile strength)

2 Arborist blocks and a large Portawrap with Tenex spliced eye slings and 1 Whoopie sling.

Yes, from time to time I still natural crotch rig if its like a quickie!

 

[tree md]

I use New England Safety Blue 1/2" for light to medium rigging, 7700# tensile strength. I've hung small pines with this rope.

3/4" Sampson Stable Braid for the big stuff. 20K# tensile strength. I've hung large pines with this rope. Plus this is what I use to block down big wood with.

I use a CMI steel block, 40K tensile with 4000 WLL, with a 3/4" Tenex eye sling, 22k tensile 2200 WLL.

I'd like to get an 3/4" aluminum block and 5/8" rope for medium to medium heavy rigging but my bases are covered with what I have already. It would just be a luxury item if I bought it.

 

[prentice110]

Always remember that stablebraid is not designed, nor intended for natural crotch rigging, and will get crispy fried if you use it this way. If you intend to constantly nat. cro. rig., you can never go wrong with good ol' fashion arborplex. It has a significantly lower WLL, but can take one hell of a beating. I would try to stay away from true blue, because it has a lot of stretch to it, and cuts real easy if the saw gets to close. A local fellow I know even tried to get a petition going to ban it from tree work 12 or so years ago for this reason. Apparently his climber had a nick in his line and didn't see it and fell when his hitch went past the nick. Anyway, Samson and new England. I climb with hi-vee safety blue and it turns into a drop line after 2 years or so. 16 strands are not really meant for nat cro riggin either but hold their own. I would recommend at least a 150 footer, but you might wanna get a 600ft reel and make your own a little longer, especially if you drape it over the crown to distribute weight.

 

[tree md]

Always remember that stablebraid is not designed, nor intended for natural crotch rigging, and will get crispy fried if you use it this way. If you intend to constantly nat. cro. rig., you can never go wrong with good ol' fashion arborplex. It has a significantly lower WLL, but can take one hell of a beating. I would try to stay away from true blue, because it has a lot of stretch to it, and cuts real easy if the saw gets to close. A local fellow I know even tried to get a petition going to ban it from tree work 12 or so years ago for this reason. Apparently his climber had a nick in his line and didn't see it and fell when his hitch went past the nick. Anyway, Samson and new England. I climb with hi-vee safety blue and it turns into a drop line after 2 years or so. 16 strands are not really meant for nat cro riggin either but hold their own. I would recommend at least a 150 footer, but you might wanna get a 600ft reel and make your own a little longer, especially if you drape it over the crown to distribute weight.

Same here. I retire a climbing line at around a year of service then use it for a lowering line for light to medium limbs. Anything over 8" and the bull rope usually comes out.

 

[prentice110]

Same here. I retire a climbing line at around a year of service then use it for a lowering line for light to medium limbs. Anything over 8" and the bull rope usually comes out.

I would retire mine after a year as well, If I could afford it.

 

[tree md]

I would retire mine after a year as well, If I could afford it.

I'm prolly at a year and a half right now on my safety blue. It is showing signs of wear on one end but the other end is in good shape. Plus I have a poison ivy rope I climb with as well. It's about time to retire the old safety blue that I rig with and use it for a tie down rope, rotate my climbing safety blue to my lowering line and buy a new one to climb with. I could just start climbing exclusively with the poison ivy but I prefer to climb on the safety blue. It's what I'm used to. I need to get another one but I keep finding other things that take precedent over a new climbing line right now.

 

[prentice110]

I'm prolly at a year and a half right now on my safety blue. It is showing signs of wear on one end but the other end is in good shape. Plus I have a poison ivy rope I climb with as well. It's about time to retire the old safety blue that I rig with and use it for a tie down rope, rotate my climbing safety blue to my lowering line and buy a new one to climb with. I could just start climbing exclusively with the poison ivy but I prefer to climb on the safety blue. It's what I'm used to. I need to get another one but I keep finding other things that take precedent over a new climbing line right now.

Hey MD, do you use the white one or the hi-vee? Spiced or not? Open or closesed? And what do you think of the poison ivy? Ive been wanting to try that out for a while. How does it hold up if you dont use a cambium saver?

 

[tree md]

Hey MD, do you use the white one or the hi-vee? Spiced or not? Open or closesed? And what do you think of the poison ivy? Ive been wanting to try that out for a while. How does it hold up if you dont use a cambium saver?

Mine has held up really well. I have used it with a friction saver almost the whole time I've had it. I did natural crotch with it a few times when I first got it. I bought it mainly to use with my ascenders. I've had it for about two years but it is a light duty rope. I never lower anything with it and take good care of it. I'm not crazy about the 11mm rope though because the smaller diameter makes my hands cramp on long climbs. The poison ivy is spliced eye but my safety blue is not. If I did my own splicing I might use spliced eye for the safety blue as well but I usually end up trimming the ends on it as it wears. Plus I am not a big fan of spliced eye on my lowering ropes. I use the good old white safety blue although I have used the hi-vee as well. The first three years I climbed I used big blue then went to safety blue after that. I've been using it around 15 years. It's familiar and comfortable to me.

 

[prentice110]

I'm not crazy about the 11mm rope though because the smaller diameter makes my hands cramp on long climbs. The poison ivy is spliced eye but my safety blue is not. If I did my own splicing I might use spliced eye for the safety blue as well but I usually end up trimming the ends on it as it wears. Plus I am not a big fan of spliced eye on my lowering ropes. I use the good old white safety blue although I have used the hi-vee as well. The first three years I climbed I used big blue then went to safety blue after that. I've been using it around 15 years. It's familiar and comfortable to me.

Thats the #1 thing I hear about the 24 strands. That there too thin. I usually cut the splices off after im done using them for climbing, but I use the open system so I can do backflips and other crazy stupid stuff for positioning reasons. No more taught line hitch for me! I got to hold the P I once and thought it was amazing how limp and limber it was and how it could bend the way it does, dont imagine it would take to natural crotches well though. ! BY THE WAY!!! Has any one ever heard of people terminating the ends of rope by wrapping them tight with bailing wire, and then dipping them in diesel and lighting them on fire, then finishing it off by adding a bunch of electrical tape?

 

[tree md]

Thats the #1 thing I hear about the 24 strands. That there too thin. I usually cut the splices off after im done using them for climbing, but I use the open system so I can do backflips and other crazy stupid stuff for positioning reasons. No more taught line hitch for me! I got to hold the P I once and thought it was amazing how limp and limber it was and how it could bend the way it does, dont imagine it would take to natural crotches well though. ! BY THE WAY!!! Has any one ever heard of people terminating the ends of rope by wrapping them tight with bailing wire, and then dipping them in diesel and lighting them on fire, then finishing it off by adding a bunch of electrical tape?

Yeah the PI is definitely not a rope you want to natural crotch with.

I don't use bailing wire (on rope anyway) but I do wrap my end real tight with electric tape where I plan to terminate, cut and burn the end. Just did both ends of my bull rope a couple of weeks ago. Good as new! maybe I'll take a pic tomorrow.

I am planing on trying the Distel tomorrow. I have some work to do at my leisure and figured it would be a good time to try a new knot. Might try a VT as well. I have been wanting to try these knots for awhile but on most jobs production is the order of the day. What can I say, I'm an old school climber...

 

[prentice110]

I think the distel is the one Ive been using for the last 2 or 3 years. Made the mistake of buying to short a prusik, and dammed aerial outta wheeling wouldnt take it back. It had just enuff to make the knot with but wore out quick and bound up like crazy. Now i gotta make 3 loops instead of 4 and keep up on it or it slips. If it wasnt for this danged starving winter id replace it. Its kinda sad when you gotta choose food and shelter over life and limb. I know a guy who loves his taught line hitch, but only goes one down, two up. The rope snapped from the extra friction on his other climber. Luckily he was only 15ft up. Moral learned, DONT TRUST SOMEONE ELSES CLIMBING LINE!!!!

 

[tree md]

How long is your prussic? Mine is 36". should that be long enough to tie the Distel/Vt???

Sorry for the hijack.

 

[prentice110]

dont know, cant go by memory like that. If I had to guess, would say 24-28. Know its not 36. First one I had was great. think that was a 36. One guy at aerial equip is a dink, and doesnt like me . could say worse about what i think about him. asked him if it was long enough to do that knot and he laughed and said yes. shoulda known better. sherril has better prices any way. havent been back to aerial since. only reason I go there at all is cuz there only bout 45 mins away