Makeshift crane?

[treeman82]

I am going to be working for a friend tomorow. He has 3? dead ash trees in back of this one house. 2 are no big deal, because they are dead... but haven't been dead for very long. The 3rd though has me worried. The thing has been dead for a pretty long time from the looks of things. The wood is still hard, but it looks like the tips have been falling out of it for a while. Can't bomb it anywhere, because of a fence, pool, plantings, well cap, etc. I would have had a descent elm to swing the wood and branches out of, but my friend was kind enough to push that over with his excavator today. The ash is maybe 50? feet tall, and about 10 feet or so from the fence. It is also about 10" DBH give or take. There is nothing around tall enough to tie into where it would do me any good. The thought we had, which is rather interesting, and something I have never heard of before is this. He just bought a new 32,000 lb Volvo excvavator with a front blade. The idea "we" had was to drive the excavator up as close to the fence as possible. I will go up the ash and set a cable from the hook on the bucket, to the trunk of the ash as high as is fiesable. Then come down, and cut the tree off the stump, having him lift the whole tree out of there with the machine. Then just set it down on the other side of the fence. The topography of the area is a definate slope which would put the tree and the machine lined up perpendicular to the slope. What do you guys think?

 

[MasterBlaster]

I would probably just start from the bottom and go up, cutting and tossing the limbs as I go, then push the top out, and make it spear into the ground... instead. 10"dbh is a pretty small tree.

 

[treeman82]

There are 4 tops. 1) I would MUCH rather not go that high due to rot, and root destruction. 2) There is no way I could throw those tops out, because I would be worried about busting up the fence and the plantings. It's been pretty windy here the past few days.

 

[topnotchtree]

It is very hard to give advice not seeing the tree. But if you are unsure if the tree will hold you, Maybe you could reach up with your buddies machine as high as possible. Climb up to and tie tree to bucket. Use the bucket to stabilize the tree so you can climb higher in it. Or, is it possible to remove a section of the fence to drop the tree thru?

 

[BigJohn]

I would think twice on climbing this tree. Its a small tree with a small root ball that is probably gone or rotted. I had two ash trees just fall over while removeing them last year and one willow. You must wonder how I made it through that year. I anticipated each one failing. The first ash I was tied into another tree nearby. I was standing on the trunk after stripping it out and sent my ground guy grab a short rope to pull the trunk over. While he was out at the truck the the truck just fell out from under me. The second ash was next to a 13.2 line and I was in the bucket. I was takeing small pieces out ropeing them down. I got maybe pieces out with no problem. On the fourth piece the ground guy locked it up a bit and over it came laying on the 13.2. I was able to set a block in the tree behind it and pull the whole tree back up straight and took the whole thing from the ground off the block. The willow tree I had a really good feeling it was comeing over. I went up set a block and blew the top in the direction I would want the whole tree to go it if failed and it did. By takeing the top is was short enough to fit in the whole and this I got out of the bucket as well. So I don't trust dead ash trees unless they show some sign of life. The loader idea sounds good I would lace that thing up pretty good. I would just tie it at the top in one spot.

 

[MasterBlaster]

I have no experience with Ash trees, so my earlier comment may have been premature.

Whats up with Ash trees?

 

[BigJohn]

Yeah Butch there is much to be leaned.

 

[MasterBlaster]

I agree.

So what up with an Ash tree?

 

[topnotchtree]

It seems to me that ash trees tend to be weak soon after they die. Unlike an oak or elm.

 

[BigJohn]

Ash seems to retain less water. The wood is much more dry and brittle. History has told me the root system seems to the first to go. I hate prunnig them cause they always look dead in the winter. In the summer it seems that there is alot of deadwood. I do like the way it cuts and hinges when alive. It will barber chair in a heart beat if cuts are made specific for ash.

 

[MasterBlaster]

I wonder if we even have those down here.

 

[TheSurgeon]

MB the all knowing

What's going on MB? I thought you were the man? "never dealt with an Ash"? I'm flabergasted!

 

[BigJohn]

I'm sure MB has worked an ash. Perhaps worked a couple guys over in a bar with one or hit a home run with one.

 

[MasterBlaster]

MB the all knowing??? Hahahaha!!!

Thanks, The Surgeon. But thats not true. Hahaha!

If I've ever worked on an Ash, I didn't know it.

 

[topnotchtree]

Treeman, any of these ideas sound good to you?

 

[treeman82]

I'm just going to attach the excavator as high up on the trunk as possible. Then come down and cut it at the base. There is a small hickory off to the side that I can tie into. Not good to work out of, but a safety net none the less.

 

[begleytree]

Ash tends to break up from the top down, BUT, the root-stem graft will fail if you attempt any butthitching, or heavy roping. At least thats what I've seen. If you think the excavator can reach up high enough to get the proper balance you are needing, I'd go for it. I seriously doubt that it would fail to hold you climbing, but am sure it would not handle the roping. At least from what I can see of it from here
-Ralph

 

[dave1]

makeshift crane.

treeman 82 If this thing is 50 ft tall and you cant take it down in 50ft or 25ft how about 10ft or 5ft or the worst 3ft at a time. Now I know that is what you are thinking . I have seen even the best intentions and a frontend loader go so very bad. Here if you even touch a dead tree with a loader the top will almost alway break out and fall on or very near you . I think that the shock of the contact with the blade is just to much. A good friend of mine stoped doing this after two or three cottonwood tops just almost had him for lunch. This friend with respect and concern called these types of trees..... WIDOW MAKERS..... Might I sugest that if you can get a 32000 pd volvo in to this backyard that you can put a 3500pd towable there as well a genie 30/50 should do and it may cost 125.00 for a dayand you wont be the job that puts a tree top through this new 32000pd volvo .And you can use the lift on the other 2 trees with ease . I know this will cost money that you would not have to spend but it goes fast and dirty. just a thought Dave1

 

[OutOnaLimb]

I was just gonna say that Dave. Thanks for saving me the time trying to type. Oh and Buch, Ash is one of the only woods that will burn when it is still green.

 

[treeman82]

I can't take it down in 2 pieces because of the way that the tree and excavator are set up.

1) for me to climb to the tips and attach the excavator to them would be NUTS.

2) Where I can tie the machine to the tree is at a high point, yet the tips are big enough that if I cut the tree in half, the top will most likely do a 180 and that is when SERIOUS injuries can happen if its attached to a machine.

3) To get a tow behind lift up there would be fun, because of the mud, and the fact that its all uphill to get to the tree... just getting the unit level would be a project in itself. That is forgetting all about the fact that his excavator has a hard enough time moving around up there.

4) The tow behind unit costs I believe, $275 / day to rent, and if you bust up ANYTHING on it; lights, wires, what have you, they will ream you a new a$$hole for it. The tree itself is not worth $275, and the other 2 don't require the lift. There is however a small maple tree up at the top of the hill which would be good for the lift, but there is no way that the lift would be able to get to it. Then there is the issue of course, that I have used that lift before, and I truly believe that the same amount of weight in the form of horse manure is more valuable than that thing is.