maple pics!!

[betterbuilt]

So whats a good Self feeding rate? i did a few timed cuts on that maple.

I didn't check the rakers but they were pretty aggressive at the start of the log.

In 28 in hard maple had a self feed speed rate of 7 to 10 inches per minute depending on the Grain changes.

I was also getting 10 inches per minute through the widest section that was from 30 to 36 inches wide.

I just wanted to repost this to see if any one had any Idea if it was a good feed rate or not.

I got my DAF in the mail today so I can get on the same page as the rest of you guys. Also it would be nice to set up my tablesaw.

 

[BobL]

I just wanted to repost this to see if any one had any Idea if it was a good feed rate or not.

Sounds good to me. In 28" aussie hardwood if I get 8"/min I'm doing OK by the end of the slab I might be down to 5"/min.

I got my DAF in the mail today so I can get on the same page as the rest of you guys. Also it would be nice to set up my tablesaw.

Yep - AND
- check your guide board/log rails for twist when it's actually on the log.
- check your mill is not twisting your bar.

In my shop, as well as saw blade check, I often use it to check the work is 90º to the drill bit on my drill press.

 

[betterbuilt]

Sounds good to me. In 28" aussie hardwood if I get 8"/min I'm doing OK by the end of the slab I might be down to 5"/min.

Thanks for the reply. I thought it was moving pretty good but, I only have 066 to compare it to. The 066 never would have self feed. It also would have taken more like 15min to make the cut.

Yep - AND
- check your guide board/log rails for twist when it's actually on the log.
- check your mill is not twisting your bar.

In my shop, as well as saw blade check, I often use it to check the work is 90º to the drill bit on my drill press.

Never thought about using it on the mill or the log rails. Thanks for the idea. I should have ordered another.

 

[mtngun]

I was also getting 10 inches per minute through the widest section that was from 30 to 36 inches wide.

That's 0.167" inch/sec which is very slow, however, I have little experience with 30" cuts and none with maple, so maybe that is a good speed for the circumstances.

 

[betterbuilt]

That's 0.167" inch/sec which is very slow, however, I have little experience with 30" cuts and none with maple, so maybe that is a good speed for the circumstances.

I was using your speeds as a comparison and you seemed to be running like 18 inches a minute most of the time. I don't ever think I'll see numbers like that in the dirty wood I cut. I'd be happy if they all cut 10 inches a minute.

Hows your 066 coming along? I got my bb p&c in the mail but I'm waiting on a few other parts.

 

[mtngun]

I haven't started working on my saws yet, still finishing up the barn. Might be January before I can get to the saws -- no hurry, milling season is 6 months away !

 

[betterbuilt]

I know what you mean having to get your building closed up before the snow flies. I'm hoping to finish a few more things around here before it get to cold. Everytime I seem to get going on something at home a customer calls and I get to go work on their stuff and mine get to wait til I find time.

 

[betterbuilt]

Yep - AND
- check your guide board/log rails for twist when it's actually on the log.
- check your mill is not twisting your bar.

In my shop, as well as saw blade check, I often use it to check the work is 90º to the drill bit on my drill press.

I milled an 27 inch ash yesterday(no pictures sorry). I took the DAF along and it really made setting the rails up a breeze. Thanks for the tip.

I'm really loving the mill feeding its self so I was trying to figure the angle it worked the best. I raised the log up to 9 degrees and it wouldn't sell feed without a gentle push. I the lowered the lower end and got 12 degrees and that seemed to work pretty good.

 

[gemniii]

You guys don't know how confusing it is to read discussions of "cutting at X shaftments/microfortnight" and then sometimes you don't tell how many shaftments wide the cut is or what the wood is or what the saw is.

Anyways, I took some of mtngun's numbers and betterbuilt's 28", 10 min/foot numbers and came up with the attached numbers.

But basically good speeds seem to be around 11 square feet PER HOUR. Check my numbers over and let me know if I made a major mistake please.

But the numbers came from:

So whats a good Self feeding rate? i did a few timed cuts on that maple.

I didn't check the rakers but they were pretty aggressive at the start of the log.

In 28 in hard maple had a self feed speed rate of 7 to 10 inches per minute depending on the Grain changes.

I was also getting 10 inches per minute through the widest section that was from 30 to 36 inches wide.

Here are the speeds for injecta-sharp with the half sharpened/half dull 25 degree top plate, all in doug fir:

slab #1, 15" - 16" width including bark, 0.4 inch/sec.

slab #6, 15" - 16" width including bark, 0.3 inch/sec (slowing as it dulls)

slab #10, 10 1/4" cant, 0.57 inch/sec

By slab #10, it felt like it was cutting slower, and the RPM's were only 7500 - 8000 most of the time. Also, the chain tension was getting a little sloppy.

I decided to take the injecta-sharp off and install a freshly sharpened WP lo-pro ripping chain. Here's how it cut on the same cant:

slab #11, 10 1/4" cant, 0.85" inch/sec.

-- mini speed test during pass #9, 14" wide including bark, 0.54" inch/sec.

-- speed test during pass #13, 14" wide, 0.36" inch/sec. Definitely sloooowing down.

-- speed test on the final pass #16, 10" wide, 0.55" inch/sec.

-- RPM's with sharp chain were typically 8000 - 9000, dropping to 7000 - 8000 toward the end of the day, as the chain dulled.

Statistics:

-- 2.2 hours CSM run time.

-- swapped chain after finishing first log (6 slabs).

-- seemed happiest and cut fastest at 8500 - 9000 rpm, yet I had a tendency to lug it as low as 7000 rpm. It takes a delicate touch to maintain the higher rpms, though it never actually bogged.

-- mini speed test, pass #3, 16" wide, 0.42 inch/sec.

-- speed test, pass #3 on another fresh chain, 16" wide, 0.29 inch/sec. Slower than previous test because the aux oiler needle valve had plugged, and I didn't notice until the test was over. The aux oiler makes a difference ! ! !

-- speed test, pass #5, 17 1/2" wide, 0.25 inch/sec. Sloooow.

Statistics:

-- 2.2 hours CSM run time.

-- swapped chain after finishing first log (6 slabs).

-- seemed happiest and cut fastest at 8500 - 9000 rpm, yet I had a tendency to lug it as low as 7000 rpm. It takes a delicate touch to maintain the higher rpms, though it never actually bogged.

-- mini speed test, pass #3, 16" wide, 0.42 inch/sec.

-- speed test, pass #3 on another fresh chain, 16" wide, 0.29 inch/sec. Slower than previous test because the aux oiler needle valve had plugged, and I didn't notice until the test was over. The aux oiler makes a difference ! ! !

-- speed test, pass #5, 17 1/2" wide, 0.25 inch/sec. Sloooow.

I haven't kept track, but let's say 6 cords.

BTW, the slabs may get used for barn siding. If not, they'll end up as firewood.

Some data, in chronological order:

-- lo-pro pass #3, 15 1/4" wide, 0.39 inch/sec.

-- lo-pro pass #4, 14" wide, 0.46 inch/sec.

-- lo-pro taken off after 0.9 hours, injecta-sharp installed

-- injecta-sharp pass #2, 13" wide, 0.37 inch/sec.

-- total 1.8 hours run time on 066.

-- about 1 1/2 gallons fuel and 1 gallon bar oil.

The 066 felt like it was running a little slow today, and the speed tests bear that out. During the last couple of passes, it was intermittently stumbling. It'll need a good checking out before heading to the woods again.

I've been using an FOP on the rakers lately, and as with the 3/8" FOP, the lo-pro FOP is a little too aggressive for this powerhead. Revs are not as high as I think they should be. I'm not sure what the solution is, but I'll stop filing the rakers for a while.

Total haul was 8 boards and two 8x8 posts, plus firewood and slabs.
The thinned 3/8" nose sprocket continues to work well and spin freely.

Once again, the injecta-sharp lo-pro ran for an hour before it slowed enough to warrant changing. A total of 1.1 hours run time and 9 passes on the injecta-sharp.

Then I finished the day with regular lo-pro.

All together, 1.5 hours run time on the 066.

Today the saw was tuned to 12,700 WOT with the 36" B&C. Typical RPM in the cut was 8500.

As usual, it seemed to cut fastest around 8500 - 9500 RPM, but human nature wants to push the saw as fast as it will let you push it, so I often found myself lugging it down to 7000 RPM. At least this top end is not fussy about RPMs.

Mini speed tests, minus the forgotten auxiliary oiler:

injecta-sharp pass #2, 13" wide, 0.44 inch/sec. Seems too slow, perhaps I wrote down the wrong number, but I have to go with what I got.

injecta-sharp pass #3, 15" wide, 0.36 inch/sec.

injecta-sharp pass #8, 13" wide, 0.46 inch/sec. By this time the chain was getting dull, yet the cut speed was faster than pass #2, which is why pass #2 doesn't seem right.

lo-pro pass #1, 13" wide, 0.62 inch/sec.

e woods ported 81 cc saw

Here's the speed test data.

pass #2, GB'd 33RP, 22" wide, 0.182" inch/sec. Did I mention it was sloooooow ?

pass #2, GB'd 33RP, 22" wide, 0.178" inch/sec.

pass #3, GB'd 33RP, 24" wide, 0.146" inch/sec. Like watching a glacier melt.

pass #1, 33RP, 20" wide, 0.245" inch/sec.

pas #1, 33RP, 22" wide, 0.195" inch/sec. This glacier was melting slightly faster than the GB'd glacier.

Here's the speed test data:

Chain #1 (GB'd 7.7 deg)
-- @ 0.6 hours, 12" wide, 0.39 inch/sec

-- @ 0.7 hours, 12 1/4" wide, 0.39 inch/sec

Chain #2 (33RP 8.7 deg)
-- @ 0 hours, 13 1/4" wide, 0.29 inch/sec

-- @ 0.1 hours, 13 1/2" wide, 0.28 inch/sec

Chain #3 (33RP 6.6 deg)
-- @ 0 hours, 12 1/4" wide, 0.38 inch/sec

It's hard to make direct comparison because the widths were different, but the stale GB'd chain was cutting just as fast as the fresh 6.6 deg chain in similar widths.

All the speeds are pitifully slow compared to lo-pro.

All the speeds are much slower than the 066 did in a 12 1/4" pine cant, even though the Oly felt strong and had no trouble maintaining 9000+ RPM. I'm puzzled as to how the Oly spins the chain just as fast as the 066, yet the cutting speed is slower ?

Four different chains were used, and this is what we'll call them.

chain #1 -- 33RP with 6 degree raker angle
chain #2 -- 33RP with 7.5 degree raker angle
GB'd -- 33RP modified to GB style, 5 - 6 degree on regular cutters, more on scoring cutters.
virgin 33RP -- I will measure and post the virgin geometry later.

The hours referred to in the results is the run time on that particular chain at the time of the speed test.

chain #1, 0.7 hours, 15", 0.30 inch/sec
chain #2, 0.1 hours, 15.5", 0.32 inch/sec
GB'd, 0.1 hours, 16.5", 0.33 inch/sec, 9500 rpm
GB'd, 0.5 hours, 16", 0.233 inch/sec, getting dull after only 1/2 hour.
GB'd, filed, 17", 0.185 inch/sec, my filing in the field sucks.
virgin 33RP, 0.1 hour, 17.5", 0.375 inch/sec
virgin 33RP, 0.6 hour, 19.5" 0.286 inch/sec.

I think there's one more test hiding somewhere, maybe it'll turn up when I edge the boards.

Chains #1 and #2 liked to spin at 9000 - 9400 rpm.

GB'd liked to spin at 9500 - 10,000 rpm.

Virgin 33RP liked to spin at 8800 - 9200 rpm.

Virgin 33RP was by far the easiest chain to bog, and it spun the slowest. It was obviously taking bigger bites than the other chains. It wasn't excessively boggy, I'd say it was "just right" for this powerhead. The other chains could stand to be slightly more aggressive.

GB'd dulled the fastest. On a previous day in the woods, I noted that GB'd had dulled the slowest, so I'm not drawing any firm conclusions based on a single experience. The tree fell in some bare dirt, and some dirt got embedded in the bark -- dirty bark will dull a chain instantly.

Chain #1 was swapped after 1.4 hours.

Chain #2 was swapped after 0.8 hours

GB'd was filed after 0.7 hours, and swapped after 1 hour.

The virgin 33RP had logged 0.9 hours when I called it a day. It had perhaps one more decent pass left in it.

The winner of this shootout was clearly virgin 33RP. Even though it was not particularly sharp -- you can often see glint on the cutters of new WP chain -- it took big bites and cut fast.

I don't understand why virgin 33RP, with its lame raker angle and glinty cutters, was actually more aggressive than my experimental chains. There must be something different about the geometry of virgin chain, something besides the raker angle. I will study the virgin chain very carefully and try to figure it out.

 

[qbilder]

LOL holy crap you got a lot of time on your hands to figure that stuff out:bang: Not as much as the CSM guys have, though. I my band saws

 

[gemniii]

LOL holy crap you got a lot of time on your hands to figure that stuff out:bang: Not as much as the CSM guys have, though. I my band saws

Yes, I have a lot of my time on my back under the influence of pain meds recovering from back surgery. Right now I can't pick up my JD CS 62, much less one of my 660 milling setups.

For comparison - how many square feet per hour can you crank out on one of your BSM's? 50? 100?

Note I'm using square feet per hour because I don't think thickness has much to do with speed of the cut w/ a CSM.

I'm usually doing boards about 2"+ thick, so about 20 board ft/hr AFTER setup. But I could go down to 1", 10 board ft/hr or up to 6", and get 60 board ft/hr.

 

[qbilder]

I can cut A BUNCH of feet per hour. The saw moves through 12" hardwood cants at about a foot per 2-3 seconds.

 

[betterbuilt]

I don't think figuring out Square ft per hour is quite fair. Its a chainsaw mill. You can't cut for a straight hour. I have to stop and oil and gas up and file my chain. Yesterday I was cutting 9 inches a minute in a 24 inch dry ash. It wasn't that great but it was feeding its self. I knew my chain wasn't as sharp as it could have been. In reality I cut 200bft in just over four hours but that's not square feet. I say we start measuring in square meters that will really mess things up.

 

[gemniii]

I can cut A BUNCH of feet per hour. The saw moves through 12" hardwood cants at about a foot per 2-3 seconds.

That would imply about 20-30 sq ft/minute, 120-180 sq ft/hr. So do you define "bunch" as little more than "gross"?

(my wife used to say she'd be ready in "a couple of minutes", after about the hundredth time I started telling her that I thought our marriage was a couple, but if she had a bunch of her girlfriends who wanted to join us .....)

 

[qbilder]

That would imply about 20-30 sq ft/minute, 120-180 sq ft/hr. So do you define "bunch" as little more than "gross"?

(my wife used to say she'd be ready in "a couple of minutes", after about the hundredth time I started telling her that I thought our marriage was a couple, but if she had a bunch of her girlfriends who wanted to join us .....)

You wouldn't say that if you seen my wife's girlfriends I can honestly say I got the "pick of the litter" LOL

 

[gemniii]

Yeah, I think I misplaced a decimal point. That's why I asked you guys to check my math.

I divided by 12 once to often.

That's the problem being on pain meds.

So a good saw can probably do about 120 sq ft/hr

 

[betterbuilt]

Yeah, I think I misplaced a decimal point. That's why I asked you guys to check my math.

I divided by 12 once to often.

That's the problem being on pain meds.

So a good saw can probably do about 120 sq ft/hr

Maybe you shouldn't try doing math till your off the meds. Its kinda like drunk calling.

When I'm milling I look at my watch and make a mark behind the mill. I let a minute go by and make another mark and thats where I get my number from. Its simple and I can pay attention to what I'm doing.