Missouri Ice Storm update.....and questions.

[ddhlakebound]

Today is the first time I've been able to get online from home since Jan. 12. Our power was out for an hour shy of twelve days, and we just got water and phone back today. My brother in law who lives in Springfield just got his power back on last night. Many people living in remote areas will be without power possibly until mid February. Just getting along in sub freezing weather without power, water, and phone has been a daunting task.

I've never seen anything like this storm anywhere in my whole life. Even all the old timers I've talked too say they've never seen anything like it.

Literally 98% of the trees for counties around took at least some damage. Many took major damage, losing most or all of their major branches, and in many cases the entire crown. Whole trees failed, onto houses and powerlines. For the first three days of the storm I was cutting my way through the roadways just to be able to travel. For the first 3 days, Jan. 12, 13, 14, it seemed like a never ending crash of trees. Standing outside at my brothers house in the dark listening, you could not count to ten without hearing a tree or limb fail.

I was surprised when I got online this evening that not a whole lot of information was posted here regarding this disaster. Tree crews are everywhere. One farm supply store here sold almost 2000 chainsaws in a week. I have not been on a single job site where I couldn't here chainsaws running around me. ROW crews and utility crews are still everywhere. Out of town residential crews are here in droves. I've worked morning to night every day since it hit, with no end in sight. My body hurts.

Much of the work we've been doing is more dangerous than normal, most trees now have large faults somewhere on the stems, and large hangars are everywhere. Many limbs are cracked or split, and difficult or impossible to see from the ground.

These factors have made me somewhat fearful of climbing without spikes. I'm not trying to stir up any old arguments or debates, but what else can a guy do? If you can't trust your TIP, it's necessary to put your eyes and hands on it close up before you can trust your life to it. I guess I'm hoping to hear that all you guys who never use spikes for pruning would also strap 'em on in this situation. For the record, since leaving the ROW I've never used spikes on a tree which was not being removed, until this storm hit.

Another dilema is where to draw the line on which trees to try to save. Our treescape is pretty much destroyed. We've lost so many trees that every tree we can save, even if for only ten or twenty years, will make a difference. The way people here think of trees changed overnight. Generally speaking many people now view trees only as a liability and a hazard.

Which species of trees will be more able to regrow their canopies after being topped by nature?

Does a tree with less than 50% of its canopy intact have enough chance to survive to make it worth the expense to the homeowner?

How long will it be until we begin seeing hazardous trees as a result of stem decay from the large wounds on the main stems of medium/large trees?

Should trees with no tops, but some good lower branches be trimmed back to the last good lateral, or just make clean cuts just below the breaks and let them regrow from there?

Nature has left us, and our trees, in a circumstance with which I have very little experience, and all input and advice is appreciated.

 

[BranchWalker74]

I enjoyed reading your post. It is hard to see how bad it really is when watching the news. Back in October here in Western NY we had a snow storm that damaged over 90% of our trees. It was similar to ice storm damage. The big difference that I see is your storm was alot more wide spread. Our storm was mainly 1 county. It is strange every where you look there were tree crews on the roads and in the trees. One thing that you may want to look into is a towable man lift. I rented a JLG 35" lift it ran $510 per week. If planned right you can get many jobs done in that week. It is amazing how much faster you can work with one of those. I had my name on a list to rent it for three weeks before I got to use it. The wait was worth it. I am even thinking of buying a lift now maybe the spider lift. Good luck and be carefull in those unsafe trees. Post some pics.

 

[046]

DDH, fairly close by in Tulsa, we had the same ice storm rip through. we had a major dose of luck in timing. we ended up with 3+ inches of solid ice on the ground for two weeks. you could ice skate most anywhere.

those same 3 inches of ice could have easily ended up sticking to our trees instead. rains came in early in the day, cold front didn't hit hard until late that night. so rains had a chance to evaporate from trees before the really cold stuff hit.

surrounding little towns got hit pretty hard! they are just now getting power back on. betcha more folks wish they had wood stoves with power generator backups.

 

[treeseer]

1. you guys who never use spikes for pruning would also strap 'em on in this situation.

The standards allow for spikes in emergencies. Even so, I'd choose to keep em off in most cases because I climb by ladder and advancing the rope through the middle of the tree, where I can :Eye: what I'm tied into. If you rely on flinging a line into the crown and climbing the rope instead of climbing the tree, then yes there may be safety issues. If you must spike, avoid damaging the bark at the bottom of the tree by using a ladder or lift.

Another dilema is where to draw the line on which trees to try to save. Our treescape is pretty much destroyed. We've lost so many trees that every tree we can save, even if for only ten or twenty years, will make a difference. The way people here think of trees changed overnight. Generally speaking many people now view trees only as a liability and a hazard.

Which species of trees will be more able to regrow their canopies after being topped by nature?

Arborphobia rages when basic services are hit. Use the Benefits http://www.treesaregood.com/treecare/tree_benefits.aspx and Values http://www.treesaregood.com/treecare/tree_values.aspx brochures to remind people of what they are losing when they mange risk with a basal cut.
Oaks generally codit well if they are healthy; water oak Q. nigra is an exception here.

Does a tree with less than 50% of its canopy intact have enough chance to survive to make it worth the expense to the homeowner?

Yes, very often it does. Previous condition is the biggest factor. Bear in mind when calculating the expense not only the removal but the replacement of the contributions made by the trees.

How long will it be until we begin seeing hazardous trees as a result of stem decay from the large wounds on the main stems of medium/large trees?

It depends on condition and species. Large tearout wounds that may never seal over mean the clock is ticking on those trees. They may stand for decades and require monitoring, leaving some tough choices.

Should trees with no tops, but some good lower branches be trimmed back to the last good lateral, or just make clean cuts just below the breaks and let them regrow from there?

Clean cuts at the first good node below the break, aka Selective heading cuts. The smaller the wound the better.
You've got a tough row to hoe. Your focus on trees as assets will help you keep your sanity while fear makes people act crazy. You can save trees one at a time; celebrate them!

 

[Bermie]

Good to have you back!! I've been in somewhat similar situations after hurricanes, we were without power for twelve days too BUT in the middle of summer, you have my sympathies for having to do without in the freezing cold

I think Treeseer has given you sound advice on which to base your decisions; try to do the best for the trees, thinking ahead to what the area will look like once spring and summer arrive. Sometimes you will have to do things you wouldn't normally, but these aren't normal circumstances.

I find when trees have broken and fallen around houses people become irrationaly afraid for the future; fine if there are obvious hazards, probably from trees which were let go too long in the first instance or compromised by construction. But when trees can be saved or reduced etc. to where they will recover with little or manageable risk, trying to convice them to leave them can be quite a task.

I wish you well, you certainly don't have an easy road, but the fact you're asking these questions will stand you in good stead when you have to make those decisions.

Climb slow stay safe

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Another approach is to manage the risk over tiem. Tell people that many trees will have to come out over time, but you may be able to establish some new ones before that happens.

When working for Guy after the ice storm in the Triangle region of NC many people were agast that we were keeping many trees intact. The passers-by had a lower risk tolerance then the customer.

Trim out the breakage, reduce areas with defects that cause higher risk... Especially in cases where insurance will not cover the removal, people will be open to doing it several years out.

You arange it to come out every spring or fall to inspect, while attending to shrubs or intalling young trees, thus maintianing the client/contractor relationship. If the sprouts grow vigorously then maybe you thin them in 3 years. If it is a tree that may really need to come down as it declines, maybe you work on getting parts of it out as they can pay....

 

[rebelman]

Good thread. Be strong lakebound. Storm chasing is not my bag, but there will be plenty of work there in months and years to come. WHen I get my regularly scheduled pruning rapped up I make make a loop and help a few of your folks out. Stay safe if you can.

 

[ddhlakebound]

Arborphobia rages when basic services are hit. Use the Benefits http://www.treesaregood.com/treecare/tree_benefits.aspx and Values http://www.treesaregood.com/treecare/tree_values.aspx brochures to remind people of what they are losing when they mange risk with a basal cut.
Oaks generally codit well if they are healthy; water oak Q. nigra is an exception here.

Large tearout wounds that may never seal over mean the clock is ticking on those trees. They may stand for decades and require monitoring, leaving some tough choices.Clean cuts at the first good node below the break, aka Selective heading cuts. The smaller the wound the better.
You've got a tough row to hoe. Your focus on trees as assets will help you keep your sanity while fear makes people act crazy. You can save trees one at a time; celebrate them!

Arborphobia....nice word......and a very apt description for what's going on around here now. Many people have already decided "that tree is coming down", and so far they have all been very determined in that decision.

Thanks Treeseer.....this helps alot.....I've read several months ago (probably your posts) about selective heading cuts, and have spent some time (not nearly enough) trying to become efficient at identifying nodes. It seems fairly easy in new to 3 or 4 inch branches, but identifying the nodes in mature stems isn't nearly as easy. Any tips?

Large tearout wounds are abundant. We're gonna have a lot of problem trees in a decade or two.

 

[ddhlakebound]

DDH, fairly close by in Tulsa, we had the same ice storm rip through. we had a major dose of luck in timing. we ended up with 3+ inches of solid ice on the ground for two weeks. you could ice skate most anywhere.

those same 3 inches of ice could have easily ended up sticking to our trees instead. rains came in early in the day, cold front didn't hit hard until late that night. so rains had a chance to evaporate from trees before the really cold stuff hit.

surrounding little towns got hit pretty hard! they are just now getting power back on. betcha more folks wish they had wood stoves with power generator backups.

We got rain before it started too. If the cold had moved in sooner it would have been even worse.......hard to imagine.

We stayed at my brothers for the first four days, coming home twice a day to feed and water the dogs and check on the place. By day four we had to come home or the whole place would have frozen up. As it was some pipes burst in the well house. I had to install our wood stove, and I was VERY glad I hadn't sold it earlier this fall.

Generators were in unbelievable demand......all of them in the whole city were sold out by early on day 2, and by day 3 people were selling them on parking lots and street corners, from pickups and trailers, and in some cases tractor trailer rigs. Set up, sell out, and go try to find another load of 'em. The big box stores had lines hundreds of people long every time a new load of generators came in. 5500 watt generators were going for $700-$850.

 

[ddhlakebound]

Good to have you back!! I've been in somewhat similar situations after hurricanes, we were without power for twelve days too BUT in the middle of summer, you have my sympathies for having to do without in the freezing cold

I think Treeseer has given you sound advice on which to base your decisions; try to do the best for the trees, thinking ahead to what the area will look like once spring and summer arrive. Sometimes you will have to do things you wouldn't normally, but these aren't normal circumstances.

I find when trees have broken and fallen around houses people become irrationaly afraid for the future; fine if there are obvious hazards, probably from trees which were let go too long in the first instance or compromised by construction. But when trees can be saved or reduced etc. to where they will recover with little or manageable risk, trying to convice them to leave them can be quite a task.

I wish you well, you certainly don't have an easy road, but the fact you're asking these questions will stand you in good stead when you have to make those decisions.

Climb slow stay safe

Thanks Bermie. Its nice to be back. 12 days did seem like a while, but we got along ok. We were chipping ice from the trees to keep the refridgerator cold, and catching melt to use for the toilet. Hauling drinking water was a pain. The cold wasn't horrible, as the wood stove kept us warm. I also borrowed a generator for a few days to bring the temp in the back porch freezer back down to about 15. It stayed below freezing for about 5 days once it was down to normal temp.

In this storm it didn't matter much if the tree had been thinned/trimmed. The managed trees and the wild trees all failed. It was just too much ice load.

 

[ddhlakebound]

Another approach is to manage the risk over tiem. Tell people that many trees will have to come out over time, but you may be able to establish some new ones before that happens.

When working for Guy after the ice storm in the Triangle region of NC many people were agast that we were keeping many trees intact. The passers-by had a lower risk tolerance then the customer.

Trim out the breakage, reduce areas with defects that cause higher risk... Especially in cases where insurance will not cover the removal, people will be open to doing it several years out.

You arange it to come out every spring or fall to inspect, while attending to shrubs or intalling young trees, thus maintianing the client/contractor relationship. If the sprouts grow vigorously then maybe you thin them in 3 years. If it is a tree that may really need to come down as it declines, maybe you work on getting parts of it out as they can pay....

Thanks JPS. This strategy I've been using since it started. Many people won't be able to do it any other way, due to the quantity of damage. The area has been declared a public disaster, which only means the utilities will get help, and the city and county governments will get federal help for the cleanup, but the residents are left to whatever means they can find to care for their splintered trees. In many cases the insurance companies are paying nothing, unless there was damage to the house or buildings, vehicles or power system. In the cases of ancient beautiful trees completely destroyed, the property value losses will just have to be absorbed by the homeowner.

 

[046]

we are soooo lucky to missed out on major storm damage in tulsa!

I'm used to power going out, so got several generator at the ready. already heat with a wood burning insert, so I'd been in good shape.

we were without power for two weeks during the last major ice storm a few years back.

We got rain before it started too. If the cold had moved in sooner it would have been even worse.......hard to imagine.

We stayed at my brothers for the first four days, coming home twice a day to feed and water the dogs and check on the place. By day four we had to come home or the whole place would have frozen up. As it was some pipes burst in the well house. I had to install our wood stove, and I was VERY glad I hadn't sold it earlier this fall.

Generators were in unbelievable demand......all of them in the whole city were sold out by early on day 2, and by day 3 people were selling them on parking lots and street corners, from pickups and trailers, and in some cases tractor trailer rigs. Set up, sell out, and go try to find another load of 'em. The big box stores had lines hundreds of people long every time a new load of generators came in. 5500 watt generators were going for $700-$850.

 

[ddhlakebound]

Good thread. Be strong lakebound. Storm chasing is not my bag, but there will be plenty of work there in months and years to come. WHen I get my regularly scheduled pruning rapped up I make make a loop and help a few of your folks out. Stay safe if you can.

Thanks Reb. I wish I were storm chasing. Then I could go home to normal looking trees. This smacked us right at home. It seems like a neverending treescape of splinterd snags. The cleanup will be months, and we will be dealing with the effects of this storm for years and years.

 

[treemaam]

hello from NC! back in dec. 02, we had a massive ice storm and folks went nuts!! reading your posts brings back alot of memories--2 wks. in a motel with a newborn and 3 yr. old while waiting to snag a generator (guys were selling generator boxes with 8" cinder blocks in 'em for $500!!!), had to cut our way out just to get to the road to go pick the guys up, check voice mail every 15-20 min. all day and night, start the day at 5 am and end when you can't see (or feel) to work anymore! Checking on the house every day just to see how many more trees had fallen--and on what, knowing it'd be weeks before we could even think about our own yard and outbuildings!
and talk about eeeery,stand on the porch after sunset and its pitch black, and suddenly sounds like all h*ll is breaking loose as trees crash like dominos :monkey: Michael said grown folks were chasing his truck down like he was the ice-cream man!!!
the damage was overwhelming. we had alot of good help come in from other places. AND alot of bad help, too. price gouging, jacklegs, fly by nights, you name it. 4 yrs later, we still hear horror stories from customers about these guys! All you can do is try to take care of yourself, family, and crew. alternate breaks and time off so everyone can stay on their toes and pay attention to the extraordinary hazards that are around ya'll. and get any pics you can of this work, and the guys goin' through it with you!
after all was settled here, we put a book together with pics, comments from the guys (and me!) and the many, many sheets of calls and situations (and attitudes) that we took from customers (wish we had copies of ALL those nice checks!!) Good luck, take care of yourselves, do the best you can, and remember.....everyone goes home at the end of the day!! Our hats off to ya--we know how hard you're working! God bless. L.

 

[65x55BPD]

Its Feb 3rd. I just got my first day off. My team mobilized and was enroute as it started. We started in Springfield as a 40 person crew. We then split up into 9 different counties. I did some chainsaw work in the beginning with the fire departments as they got called out to inaccessable roads. Then i spent 68 hours straight getting water food and supplies to all of the outlying towns around springfield and Lebanon(lebanin locally) when the national guard ordered its troops to stand down and not drive because of the weather. I also worked on a shelter operation in Lebanon. Then i attached to a rural fire department and helped emergency operations In dallas co. After that i was sent back to Srpringfield to start and lead field operations doing treework for free for elderly, noninsured, underinsured and disabled.

you could say ive been busy with this storm. anybody else in the springfield area?

 

[ddhlakebound]

Its Feb 3rd. I just got my first day off. My team mobilized and was enroute as it started. We started in Springfield as a 40 person crew. We then split up into 9 different counties. I did some chainsaw work in the beginning with the fire departments as they got called out to inaccessable roads. Then i spent 68 hours straight getting water food and supplies to all of the outlying towns around springfield and Lebanon(lebanin locally) when the national guard ordered its troops to stand down and not drive because of the weather. I also worked on a shelter operation in Lebanon. Then i attached to a rural fire department and helped emergency operations In dallas co. After that i was sent back to Srpringfield to start and lead field operations doing treework for free for elderly, noninsured, underinsured and disabled.

you could say ive been busy with this storm. anybody else in the springfield area?

Nice work. And thanks. There were many many people here who were in need of help wether it was food, water, fuel, dry wood, or help so they could get out of their driveway or street.

I've only been as far north as bolivar and as far east as fair grove, west, halltown, since the storm. Which counties were among the 9 your crew split into? Is the widespread damage as bad everywhere as it is in greene county? Did you manage to avoid falling ice, limbs and trees during the first few days? Travelling then was fairly perilous.

Our company didn't start any paying jobs until day 4 of the storm, other than roping a very large cracked red oak limb which was directly over a house. The first three days we spent doing volunteer work, which ended up benefiting us way more than if we had tried to profit from every hour available. People were calling the local talk/news radio stations KSGF and KTTS, saying they were blocked in their driveways or streets.

My partner went to the radio station, handed them a business card, and said we'd help anyone who called needing help free of charge. The minute they broadcast our number the phone started ringing. Many of the calls were from people who wanted us to bid jobs. But plenty were people needing help. After we left each of their houses/neighborhoods, many called the radio stations thanking us and telling the station we had helped them for free.

It was a very good feeling being able to help, if only for a few days. And I'd do it over and over again. And a very large benefit......A few days volunteer work has generated an incredible (for our very small outfit) amount of work. And more GREAT radio advertising than we could have ever afforded. We already did an hour long call in session on KSGF, and will hopefully do another.

 

[ddhlakebound]

hello from NC! back in dec. 02, we had a massive ice storm and folks went nuts!! reading your posts brings back alot of memories--2 wks. in a motel with a newborn and 3 yr. old while waiting to snag a generator (guys were selling generator boxes with 8" cinder blocks in 'em for $500!!!), had to cut our way out just to get to the road to go pick the guys up, check voice mail every 15-20 min. all day and night, start the day at 5 am and end when you can't see (or feel) to work anymore! Checking on the house every day just to see how many more trees had fallen--and on what, knowing it'd be weeks before we could even think about our own yard and outbuildings!
and talk about eeeery,stand on the porch after sunset and its pitch black, and suddenly sounds like all h*ll is breaking loose as trees crash like dominos :monkey: Michael said grown folks were chasing his truck down like he was the ice-cream man!!!
the damage was overwhelming. we had alot of good help come in from other places. AND alot of bad help, too. price gouging, jacklegs, fly by nights, you name it. 4 yrs later, we still hear horror stories from customers about these guys! All you can do is try to take care of yourself, family, and crew. alternate breaks and time off so everyone can stay on their toes and pay attention to the extraordinary hazards that are around ya'll. and get any pics you can of this work, and the guys goin' through it with you!
after all was settled here, we put a book together with pics, comments from the guys (and me!) and the many, many sheets of calls and situations (and attitudes) that we took from customers (wish we had copies of ALL those nice checks!!) Good luck, take care of yourselves, do the best you can, and remember.....everyone goes home at the end of the day!! Our hats off to ya--we know how hard you're working! God bless. L.

Thats horrible about the cinder block generators. I haven't heard any stories like that from here, so far anyway. I have to give a lot of credit to the folks who live here. Most people were doing all they could to help everyone around them. Price gouging for fuel, food, water and goods wasn't a large problem, but there were instances of it.

There are more tree companies here than I've ever seen anywhere. They will probably start to filter out in the next few weeks. (I hope) Many of the residents are showing a fair amount of patience in waiting for local companies. There have been lots of stories of "FEMA certified tree co's" going door to door with outrageously high rates, some even telling homeowners that if they submit their tree bills to FEMA, they will be reimbursed. Total lies.

 

[Curtis James]

I'm just on the other side of the river and I have been swamped also. I will say this, all the trees I have trimmed in the last five years sustained virtually no loss of limbs. Large tulip poplars, sweet gums, even a few pear trees. My trees and customers were thrilled. I even placed the cobra system in a large multi stemmed sweet gum and did some minimal trimming in it because it had just lost a substantial portion in our violent spring storms we just had. I installed the triangular pattern. It did lose a little bit in the top on only one of the three stems but it is still looking good. I am trying to put a brochure together to show how proper maintainence can prevent such great loss.I have photos of an un maintained tulip poplar that just looks terrible now. with the one I trimmed and it didn't loise a twig. I thought Iwas going to have a melt down at first I felt so over whelmmed. It was sad to see how fast people were out to take advantage of the community. Some people were just out there charging people out the wazoo for just brush removal. I felt obligated to help thy fellow neighbor so I did a few no charge jobs for some local elderly ,retired and a few local war vets. It is the least I can do to give back. I would do this for free every day if I could. Like johhny apple seed only we'll say Timmy Trimmerton, trimming trees across the world.

 

[046]

Here's typical storm damage near Grove, OK

 

[55chevyparts]

I should have taken more pictures with all the ice on everything. Hindsight.