More knot questions...

[Dan Flinn]

O.K. I am going to move into this century and am going to try the distal.

I have a couple questions, though. I am posting two versions of what I tied. Which one is correct? The one with the pulley to the front or to the back? Or, does it matter?

When you guys untie the hitch, do you just leave the fisherman's knots in the cord?

Anyway, here is the first one:

 

[Dan Flinn]

Here is the second....



Any comments will be appreciated!

Thanks,

Dan

 

[treeclimber165]

The Distel can be used either way but I prefer the way you have it tied in the first picture. The hitch seems to release easier when slack tending and doesn't drag as much.
I see you're using 8mm T-900. Good stuff. If you find it too stiff, you can try the 8mm Sta-Set. Same outer poly braid and a poly inner braid. About 1/3 the cost and wears the same.
Keep us posted on your progress and thoughts as you adjust to the new hitch!

 

[mikecross23]

I like it to be on the right side of the biner for me to use my right hand to take out slack. I can get a short pull on the tail w/ my left hand when necessary.

My Sta-set should be here tomorrow or Wednesday. Can't wait to try different length cords!

 

[Dan Flinn]

You know, I ordered some Sta-Set when I got the T-900 and they sent a smaller size instead of the 5/16. I'll have to wait 'til more comes in the mail.

Thanks for your input,
Dan

 

[NickfromWI]

That second picture?

I definately use what you show in the first picture. It looks like the second one would be a pain in the butt to use. How exactly would that work? Wouldn't the weight of the pulley constantly be trying to flip the whole thing back over?

Just wondering

love
nick

 

[hillbilly]

I have used the 1st setup, in fact it looked pretty much exactly
like that setup!
Since then I have switched to the schwabisch, switched the
Fixe pulley to a micropulley and switched the biner to
a Petzl TRI-ACT. Pretty much the same setup anyway

I leave the fisherman's on, always considered it a permanent
kind of knot. You might wanna stitch those tails or alternatively
tape the back on to the standing part.

 

[Dan Flinn]

Thanks for all the input. By the way, I tied the second picture like this one I found after a search on the net.

I'll let you know how it goes today....

 

[NickfromWI]

The second pic

It seems like the second picture and the first are the same...both tied exactly the same. The difference being that the whole thing is facing to the right in one pic, and to the left in the other. If you took the second pic, or the yellow one you showed us, flipped it over, would it not be the same?

Hillbilly, since you've switched to the swabisch, have you found that it locks up tighter, but is a bit harder to advance? That's my assessment of the difference between the two. Or did you find something different?

love
nick

 

[hillbilly]

Yep, Nick, that's exactly the difference I found between the
two if tied 4 up 1 down with the same cord !

I'm still experimenting with various variations of the french prusik
but haven't found one I like yet. Either it looks off and is hard to
advance or it advances easy, but then I'm worried about the
"bunching up" and feel it wouldn't grab the rope in case I slipped.

I am yet to find a retailer for Ultra-Tech, Samson or New England
in Sweden! Been using some Robson, 32-strand double braid
dyneema, which is ok, but really expensive.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

IMO the D seems to catch and release a little better then the S.

I like the double braid ropes better then holloe braid splices.

Right now I'm using Stable Braid 5/16 for an MT 3:3.

My micro pulley is off the karab for easier assembly. I keep it on a dog-snap next to the karab. Seems like I could use the snap alone, but it is not as smooth of an operation.

 

[treeclimber165]

Based on what I learned here and my own experience, I prefer the tender pulley as close to the hitch as possible and the tres cord as short as possible to eliminate the slop when I need to advance the rope. Using my current hitch (about identical to Dan's first picture) I have very little slop when advancing the hitch by pulling the tail of my lifeline. I find that the VT/ MT variations have a lot more slop when it's time to advance your lifeline.
About the only slop in my current hitch is from the carabiner flopping down on my D rings when the line has slack. Maybe I'll start looking for a shorter carabiner than the Am'D Petzl? Or maybe not.....

 

[hillbilly]

John, you mentioned earlier in another thread that the MT
failed to grab on you at one time. This is what I am
worried about using the french prusiks. Any more info on why
this happened and what steps you took to prevent it
from happening again?

Of course a badly tied or badly used distel or schwabsich might
fail to grip too, only I feel the chance for that to happen is way
smaller than with the MT. Input on this is very welcome.

The little I've tried the MT I would say the superior sensitivity
overweights slop.

 

[Stumper]

John can clarify, but as I understood his post about the MT not catching the problem was his upper body laying on the hitch and "tending" the unloaded hitch so that as he moved forward it didn't load and lock.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Yup, he's got it.

I was out on a tip of an Acer saccharinum, and it was more comfortable to work in between the 2 legs of my line instead of having them to one side. I leaned into the line without setting the knot, it being against my body, it was not able to self set, the spring in the coils compressed. It was rather disconcertion to keep going when the line should have supported me. I di not go far and had a second tiein with my lanyard. but my heart was going a little faster then usual.

 

[Dan Flinn]

OK, I'm hooked.

I had three oaks to do today. The first two were straight up and straight down, pruning a few limbs. I used my brand new Pantin, my brand new handled ascender and my brand new Distal hitch. I did, however, on the first and second tree, use the DDrt, because that is what I'm used to and I didn't want to worry with changing over from the SRT. I even left the ascender as a backup just in case.

On the last tree, I hit a great tie in point at about 50'. I decided to try the SRT. I got going, Pantin up, grab rope, step up and advance the ascender. I'm thinking "Man if there were just something to gr......" DUH! Once I used the HANDLED ascender to pull up along with the Pantin, I flew! I must have covered the last 30' in about 2 minutes!

Well, changing over to my climbing line was no big deal, I moved throughout the tree like normal. I walked a couple limbs and found the reason this setup is so great. Moving back to the trunk was smooth and controlled.

I do have a couple more questions. It took a while to get used to seeing the hitch spread when loaded. I guess that's normal? Also, I happened across the anchor bend. This is, by standard, one of the acceptable life support knots, right? I had to ditch my snap link because it rest right at the Distal. I used a bowline and a biner today, but I'd like a little more room. What do you guys use to connect to the saddle?

I guess I messed up with the pictures - The difference I saw was the knot was facing different directions. No matter, I'm happy with the hitch.

Thanks so much for all your help!
Dan

 

[treeclimber165]

The anchor bend is good. I have been using the double fisherman's, same as how I attach the tres cord to the other biner. Make sure to dress and set your knots well and keep an eye on how long the tail is to make sure it isn't slipping. It took me a couple weeks to be able to trust those knots 100% but so far so good.

Seeing the hitch spread will become reassuring as you will recognise that as visual proof that it is grabbing. Glad you made it to this century!

For connecting to the saddle, I have noticed a slight tendency for the knot in my lifeline to occassionally interfere with the friction hitch. Eye splicing my lifelines has helped a lot. Another thing I'm looking at is the Express stitched slings (Sherrill # 25264, 65 and 66) to extend the rope connection past the friction hitch. I bought a 4" and 6" but they are both too short to help much. Looks like a 9" would work. But for now it isn't a big deal and I just use the spliced eye or Dbl fisherman's knot and a biner.

 

[mikecross23]

I did, however, on the first and second tree, use the DDrt, because that is what I'm used to and I didn't want to worry with changing over from the SRT.

I make short assents w/ DDrt, and longer one's SRT. I don't like the static (?) feeling of the rope (the bounciness.) The more I use this method the better I get at timing the bounce to help lift me up when the rope recoils.

"Once I used the HANDLED ascender to pull up along with the Pantin, I flew! I must have covered the last 30' in about 2 minutes!"

Nice isn't it! What works best for me is to hold my ascender w/ right hand, w/ left hand hold just below ascender. I keep my elboys bent and forearms locked tight against my chest. Holding it like this keeps me in line w/ the rope and when I take another step w/ the pantin all I have to do is hold my self up in that position. That way makes for smaller steps, but I can pump out 3 times as many small quick steps as I can big ones and I don't tire my upper body out as much.

"Also, I happened across the anchor bend."

That's what I use now and I like it better than the few others I tried. I just spliced my second piece of safety blue hi-vee. Practicing on a scrap piece before I try it on my lifeline but I hope to cut down on the bulk.

-Mike-

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

If i don't have an eye I will use a fis...er..uhh... scaffold knot.

I use a tight eye with a quickling to connect the aluminum clip to the eye.

 

[Dan Flinn]

I never thought to use the fis..er.....scaffold knot . All these new knots will take awile to get used to. It's hard enough to look at the 8mm holding me, but I definately like this new system.

I'm going to try some Sta-set and also the other one that JPS suggested.

I noticed that there was some wear on the tres cord. Did I read that I can only expect about a month of use from each one? It's really not a concern given the low price of the cord.

Funny how a thing like this can add new life to a man's climbing!

Dan