More wood in a pickup bed, split or unsplit?

[Curlycherry1]

A good way to test it is with a water tank to see what is displaced in both circumstances.

Actually no. First law of firewood dynamics (patterned after the first law of thermodynamics), "Firewood is neither created or destroyed while splitting."

Splitting does not create wood, it just rearranges the density per unit area the wood can occupy. So if you put it in a tank of water, rounds and the splits would displace exactly the same amount of water.

 

[Coldfront]

The whole thing is about the amount of air gaps between the pieces. Unsplit wood takes up a smaller space. It was probably said already. Take a 16" round that just fits inside a 5 gal. bucket, then split the piece in 4 and try and fit it back into the bucket, it can't be done.

 

[wdchuck]

Great application and answer to the kid in class that asks, " when am I ever going to use this stuff? ".

Thanks for taking the time to make the model.


Next trip to the library with the kids, I"ll have to include a textbook on thermodynamics, never too late to learn more.

 

[Dalmatian90]

Splitting does not create wood, it just rearranges the density per unit area the wood can occupy.

But it will create more surface area, which means the split wood will sponge up more water then rounds would.

And the ability of wood to absorb water will throw off your measurement by liquid displacement.

 

[Curlycherry1]

But it will create more surface area, which means the split wood will sponge up more water then rounds would.

And the ability of wood to absorb water will throw off your measurement by liquid displacement.

Yes, but it will not absorb water right away.

<.........sighs, and off he goes to find a graduated cylinder to do the experiment.

 

[woodbooga]

Actually no. First law of firewood dynamics (patterned after the first law of thermodynamics), "Firewood is neither created or destroyed while splitting."

I've destroyed quite a bit of firewood whilst splitting.

All the loose bark, slivers, punk chunks pile up over a season's worth of splitting. Usually comes to several wheelbarrow loads. Comes in handy in leveling off uneven parts of the yard or keeping the weeds down in the veggie patch, tho'.

 

[Curlycherry1]

I've destroyed quite a bit of firewood whilst splitting.

All the loose bark, slivers, punk chunks pile up over a season's worth of splitting. Usually comes to several wheelbarrow loads. Comes in handy in leveling off uneven parts of the yard or keeping the weeds down in the veggie patch, tho'.

Tis true. Run a processor for a day and watch the pile of junk grow. 30-50 Face cords of firewood in a day will yield 2-5 big buckets on a Kubota of chips, slivers, bark and misc junk. Not to mention the sawdust. But the sawdust can be sold to horsie people.

 

[Wood Doctor]

The whole thing is about the amount of air gaps between the pieces. Unsplit wood takes up a smaller space. It was probably said already. Take a 16" round that just fits inside a 5 gal. bucket, then split the piece in 4 and try and fit it back into the bucket, it can't be done.

+1. That's the bottom line. It reminds me of my carrots and potatoes post. Now multiply the buckets by 100 for a truckload. Has anybody got the picture? If not, then go out and do it sometime.

Hey wait a minute. Maybe the trees have super thick bark and wood splitters throw all of that "useless" bark away after splitting big logs. So, they think that (stacked round billet volume) > (stacked split wood volume) - (bark volume + waste shrapnel) .

Maybe that's it. Gasp! Lots of bark falls off wood when split dry.

If thick bark volume plus lots of shrapnel is huge, then perhaps it's a wash.

Curly et al., we may have to consider this.

 

[camoman]

This is how I get the most out of the bush as I can in a load..

I try make them 8ft and leave the gate open. I stack them high enough that I can strap them down. Easy to load this way as well.. I simply take my picaroon and drag them to the truck, lift one end up and go around the back and lift the other end while pushing.

works for me.. still want a wood hauling trailer tho.

 

[AKKAMAAN]

This is how I get the most out of the bush as I can in a load.

What kind off tree is that on your truck?.....reminds me about birch back in Sweden......opcorn:

 

[camoman]

What kind off tree is that on your truck?.....reminds me about birch back in Sweden......opcorn:

Mostly poplar.. thats the majority of the trees around these parts. I also burn jackpine and tamarak in colder months.
Thing I hate about poplar is the amount of ash it leaves.. constantly emptying my can...

 

[camoman]

How much wood do you figure I have on the back of my truck in those pics? I was thinking damn near a cord??

 

[AKKAMAAN]

How much wood do you figure I have on the back of my truck in those pics? I was thinking damn near a cord??

short bed truck+tailgate= 8ft logs
bed width...5'2" minus wheel house space...I count 4.7ft
height about 2.5 ft
thats a 94 ft^3 box with wood

probobly about 50% bark and air....or 35% air...

anyway I guesstimate it to...hmmmm...81.5 ft^3
which is 81.5/128 cords=0.637 cords with all bark left on logs final answer

 

[Mike PA]

Actually no. First law of firewood dynamics (patterned after the first law of thermodynamics), "Firewood is neither created or destroyed while splitting."

Splitting does not create wood, it just rearranges the density per unit area the wood can occupy. So if you put it in a tank of water, rounds and the splits would displace exactly the same amount of water.

The water idea works, but not as described. There is more air space (porosity) in the split wood than the rounds. Therefore, a cord of split wood would hold more water than a cord of rounds. You've got the right idea with density, as there is less mass in the split stack, therefore the density of the cord is less.

 

[Wood Doctor]

The water idea works, but not as described. There is more air space (porosity) in the split wood than the rounds. Therefore, a cord of split wood would hold more water than a cord of rounds. You've got the right idea with density, as there is less mass in the split stack, therefore the density of the cord is less.

Bottom line is the volume of bark and the waste pieces that the splitter leaves behind. If the bark and the chips are thrown away when splitting dry wood, then the split firewood stack that is barkless will just about equal the volume of the big rounds that came in on the truck with the bark intact.

Most of the the bark on dry wood falls off as the rounds are split. Some save the bark and the chips it for kindling. Some don't.

 

[Snowchief]

GREAT SCOTT!

Excellent work Curlycherry, I am a doubter no more. You have tested the practical worst case, thank you.

 

[turnkey4099]

The water idea works, but not as described. There is more air space (porosity) in the split wood than the rounds. Therefore, a cord of split wood would hold more water than a cord of rounds. You've got the right idea with density, as there is less mass in the split stack, therefore the density of the cord is less.

Looks to me he has it right. He is not talking about how much volume the split vs round would occupy. He is talking about how much water it would displace. Both would displace the same amount, ignoring of course how much more the splits would 'absorb'.

Take one stick say 1 cu ft and drop it in water. Assuming it sank it would displace 1 cu ft of water. Cut it up into, say, 9 pieces and drop them in. Again if they sank, they would isplace 1 cu ft but would occupy more space.

Harry K

 

[Mike PA]

Curly has it right, but the guy he was responding to did not. That's what I was refering to, but my quote didn't include wdchuckss quote. The original question is to see how much volume split v. unsplit would occupy. You are right, the wood displaces the same amount of water. However, to prove in another way which volume would be larger, fill both stacks with water and measure how much water is required to fill both stacks.

 

[jooky]

So to sum up this super old thread.
leave 80-90% in rounds
split some to fill any air gaps as you load rounds

 

[Wood Doctor]

Maybe we need to get back to basics. If you pack unsplit wood tight in a pickup truck as much as it can hold. unload it and then split it all, you will never get all those splits back into the same truck as one load. About 15% of the original volume will not fit.