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I'd like specifics on muffler mods, and are they really as good as they seem to be?
muffler mods
- Thread starter rahtreelimbs
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treeclimber165
Member A.K.A Skwerl
Specifics on which saw? I can tell ya about an 026. Can't say squat on other saws. They are all different but similar. 
I always understood that if you open up the exhaust you will have to richen the mix to keep from being too lean? Whatever you do make sure it doesn't overrev. The bearings can only go around so fast.
Dennis
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As far as muffler mods go...do what you will...until you start welding in new pipes as we do...you wont go wrong...opening the exhaust will make more power...make the saw run cooler...and overall...run better....no need to play with mixture screws..pretty much hard to hurt the saw with only doing exhaust work....
I would say it really depends on what saw you are doin it to.
I remember when the 288 husky was iontroduced...I took my demo and put a double outlet, opened up muffler on it. At an chainsaw open house we took a nother one that had the stock muffler on it, set em both out by the sawbucks. before anyone came around we put both saws to the clock...many times with a couple different sawyers. Could get no difference in how fast they would cut really, after an hour of fiddling round with em. foolin with the carb an such.
We invited everyone who came around that day to run the quiet one first...then, with a cheerful gesture..we would say "now try that one"..and EVERYBODY...no xceptions would exclaim how much faster that sucker was...course...no stopwatch then. we would jus smile...we had timbercutters ,.landscapers ..farmers ..arborists ...everybody at that show. seems the noise mad em all think they were really makin chips!
on the other hand, I know of several trimmers and some smaller consumer saws that benifited greatly from such treatment, or buy just drillin an extra hole or 2 in the outlet area....so, it really depends on how restrictive the muffler is in the first place.
Mufflers dont cost that much...buy an extra and check for yourself on your saw.
I remember when the 288 husky was iontroduced...I took my demo and put a double outlet, opened up muffler on it. At an chainsaw open house we took a nother one that had the stock muffler on it, set em both out by the sawbucks. before anyone came around we put both saws to the clock...many times with a couple different sawyers. Could get no difference in how fast they would cut really, after an hour of fiddling round with em. foolin with the carb an such.
We invited everyone who came around that day to run the quiet one first...then, with a cheerful gesture..we would say "now try that one"..and EVERYBODY...no xceptions would exclaim how much faster that sucker was...course...no stopwatch then. we would jus smile...we had timbercutters ,.landscapers ..farmers ..arborists ...everybody at that show. seems the noise mad em all think they were really makin chips!
on the other hand, I know of several trimmers and some smaller consumer saws that benifited greatly from such treatment, or buy just drillin an extra hole or 2 in the outlet area....so, it really depends on how restrictive the muffler is in the first place.
Mufflers dont cost that much...buy an extra and check for yourself on your saw.
Dennis
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Builder...I have to agree with Stihltech in saying..."just dont overrev" These saws will run at some serious rpms...(some 15000+) Just not for long....but when we are taking them that high...it does create a lean situation...the heat from that lean situation will prolly burn up the exhaust side of the piston before the brgs give up...most of the crank bearings are rated at 19000 if I remember correctly...have to check the brg book again...
Dagger...I cant honestly say anything about (only) 288 muffler mods...all the 288s I have built have been full engine mods..not just muffler...but we have gotten some really nice gains out of the saw...I will definitely agree that every saw is different...some of the saws respond way better to muffler mods than others...And more than once I have seen that exact thing..."its louder...it must be faster" lol....
Dagger...I cant honestly say anything about (only) 288 muffler mods...all the 288s I have built have been full engine mods..not just muffler...but we have gotten some really nice gains out of the saw...I will definitely agree that every saw is different...some of the saws respond way better to muffler mods than others...And more than once I have seen that exact thing..."its louder...it must be faster" lol....
hello dennis,
Anytime you spin a 2-cycle up to 15,000 rpm unloaded you're getting into a dangerous area of rpm. thats why we dont set the carbs with a tack. we set the high side making cuts.much easier on your motor. the most important thing is to have enough oil in your fuel mix. at those kinds of rpm your not getting enough oil in the bearings. 50-1 just wont cut it. the 6203j rod bearing isnt rated at 19000rpm, its rated at a much lower rpm. the bearing you're looking for is the 7203w, its rated at 19,000
dagger,
most of the newer mufflers get a 15- 20 percent power increase by dual porting them. all the late model saws are very restricted. the factory does this this to make them quiter and to make them hotter to lower emmisions. we wern't able to make any increases with the older saws like the homelights and poulons and some mac's but the saws in the last few years we get big power increases. we dont do many 281-288's any more but when we did we got the same 15- 20 percent increase in cutting speed. you must have had a bad stopwatch. yes they make a lot more noise but they cut faster.
ken
[email protected]
Anytime you spin a 2-cycle up to 15,000 rpm unloaded you're getting into a dangerous area of rpm. thats why we dont set the carbs with a tack. we set the high side making cuts.much easier on your motor. the most important thing is to have enough oil in your fuel mix. at those kinds of rpm your not getting enough oil in the bearings. 50-1 just wont cut it. the 6203j rod bearing isnt rated at 19000rpm, its rated at a much lower rpm. the bearing you're looking for is the 7203w, its rated at 19,000
dagger,
most of the newer mufflers get a 15- 20 percent power increase by dual porting them. all the late model saws are very restricted. the factory does this this to make them quiter and to make them hotter to lower emmisions. we wern't able to make any increases with the older saws like the homelights and poulons and some mac's but the saws in the last few years we get big power increases. we dont do many 281-288's any more but when we did we got the same 15- 20 percent increase in cutting speed. you must have had a bad stopwatch. yes they make a lot more noise but they cut faster.
ken
[email protected]
Dennis
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Ken...lol..thats what I was getting at about the 15000 rpms...ya just dont do it....the book that I have says...6203/c3 17000 in grease and 20000 in oil....now I dont know if that means gas/oil mix...or straight oil...possibly the book you have is rating them for fuel/oil mix...which of course would be more accurate for what we are doing...
deadtrees
ArboristSite Operative
I have two Stihl 028 Supers from 1983. Do they qualify as older saws where a muffler mod would not help much? I would like to try a mod on one. John Walker says about .5 hp increase. Does that sound right? I also have a new 038 magnum made in brazil. Would a muffler mod on that be worth it?
YUKON 659
ArboristSite Guru
Hey "Muffler Mod Specialists", I was wondering if you get the same type of increase in performance if you do a muffler mod on a clearing/brush saw? I've got a Husky 232, could I expect the same 15-20% power increase?
Thanks, Jeff
Thanks, Jeff
Hello Rich,
Enclosed is a photo of a modified 385 muffler that I just modified for jonathan hobbs (homedelite man). just starting on the saw so thought I'd do the muffler first and give you the results so you would have an idea of the power increase you'll get. With the muffler stock it cut a 3 cut average in a 15 inch log of7.24 seconds. Opening up the top outlet and putting in a extra port in the front it cut a three cut average of 5.52. this is real close to a 20 percent increase in cutting speed. you also get a cooler running engine. We also tried the muffler without the screens but no more gain in cutting speed. No other mods have been done to the saw yet. its 100 percent stock.
ken
[email protected]
Enclosed is a photo of a modified 385 muffler that I just modified for jonathan hobbs (homedelite man). just starting on the saw so thought I'd do the muffler first and give you the results so you would have an idea of the power increase you'll get. With the muffler stock it cut a 3 cut average in a 15 inch log of7.24 seconds. Opening up the top outlet and putting in a extra port in the front it cut a three cut average of 5.52. this is real close to a 20 percent increase in cutting speed. you also get a cooler running engine. We also tried the muffler without the screens but no more gain in cutting speed. No other mods have been done to the saw yet. its 100 percent stock.
ken
[email protected]
dbabcock
Hi Tech Redneck
Less is More
I wouldn't doubt anything KD says in regard toward chainsaws and these power increases facilitated by modifying the muffler don't surprise me in the least. One look inside either muffler on my 3120 KD or 2149 G told the story...there's nothing left in them!
...lol
I wouldn't doubt anything KD says in regard toward chainsaws and these power increases facilitated by modifying the muffler don't surprise me in the least. One look inside either muffler on my 3120 KD or 2149 G told the story...there's nothing left in them!
...lol
Ken...rgr tht pard...I cant tell ya of the frustrations of a design team when developing a new product, and having to deal with the decibil parameters that the sales dept demands...
from their point of view..and I cant really argue with their logic..is a lower decibel level decreases fatigue, this I know is true.
But..
I said to a team leader once..but thats why we sell ear protection right?..he just looked at me with a dumba$$ look that only a swede that grew up never dreaming of owning a car could..he really didnt get it!
(the workin man over there cant afford a car)
I was gone from that team before the EPA regs bothered us too, but there is NO doubt that the newer saws have a restricted muffler to facilitate higher heat levels, and lower emissions as a result. In addition to trying to make them "more comfortable "
AND we also use to sell saws in the south american and eastern/europe market with what we called "jungle mufflers"..which were really just less restrictive..they all had more power than the north american versions. Those were also the models that all the saw-reps usually used for demos!
from their point of view..and I cant really argue with their logic..is a lower decibel level decreases fatigue, this I know is true.
But..
I said to a team leader once..but thats why we sell ear protection right?..he just looked at me with a dumba$$ look that only a swede that grew up never dreaming of owning a car could..he really didnt get it!
(the workin man over there cant afford a car)
I was gone from that team before the EPA regs bothered us too, but there is NO doubt that the newer saws have a restricted muffler to facilitate higher heat levels, and lower emissions as a result. In addition to trying to make them "more comfortable "
AND we also use to sell saws in the south american and eastern/europe market with what we called "jungle mufflers"..which were really just less restrictive..they all had more power than the north american versions. Those were also the models that all the saw-reps usually used for demos!
jungle mufflers
Hello Dagger,
What your saying about the jungle mufflers are true, I've got 2 jungle versions for 090 stihl. the inlet and outlets are the same size as the U.S. versions but the capacity inside are just about double. I think if we built a muffler that was bigger inside for our huskys and stihls we might get higher power outputs and run quieter also but it probably would play havoc with the emissions
ken
[email protected]
Hello Dagger,
What your saying about the jungle mufflers are true, I've got 2 jungle versions for 090 stihl. the inlet and outlets are the same size as the U.S. versions but the capacity inside are just about double. I think if we built a muffler that was bigger inside for our huskys and stihls we might get higher power outputs and run quieter also but it probably would play havoc with the emissions
ken
[email protected]
slabberman
ArboristSite Member
G'day Ken,
Is there any chance you could photograph the 090 jungle muffler for me, along with a discription of the size etc? I have an 090, but thought there was nothing I could do muffler-wise as the stock one is aluminium (excuse the spelling!!). See the photo for my muffler.
Thanks a lot.
Cheers
Charlie.
Is there any chance you could photograph the 090 jungle muffler for me, along with a discription of the size etc? I have an 090, but thought there was nothing I could do muffler-wise as the stock one is aluminium (excuse the spelling!!). See the photo for my muffler.
Thanks a lot.
Cheers
Charlie.
090 Stihl jungle muffler
Hello Charlie,
Heres 2 photos of the 090 jungle muffler. put in the stock muffler so you could see the size difference.the stock muffler mounts on the flange and goes down, the jungle muffler mounts on the flange and then comes up and out to the flywheel side.
Hello Charlie,
Heres 2 photos of the 090 jungle muffler. put in the stock muffler so you could see the size difference.the stock muffler mounts on the flange and goes down, the jungle muffler mounts on the flange and then comes up and out to the flywheel side.
090 jungle no.2 photo
hello slabberman,
here's a rear view of the 090 mufflers
ken
[email protected]
hello slabberman,
here's a rear view of the 090 mufflers
ken
[email protected]
