Munter Hitch???

[arboristman]

NEVER! should you use a rope that is used for pulling/lowering as a life line!!!
NEVER!

always use a seperate rope.your life line for climbing only.
if you cant use a trow bag and a running bowling to set a rope for pulling over a tree,simply climb up as always with your life line,and the pull line hooked on for JUST that purpose,to tie it to the tree via bowling running bowline,since im up there anyway at that point il ues the clove hitch followed by 2 half hitches.
then as always tie in with your life line and use your fav friction hitch,with a hitch if anything goes wrong,you simply let go and stay put,easy as that.
NEVER trust your life on the pull rope EVER! that rope is NOT called a "life line" for a reason. if you dont have many ropes,and a designated life line,then your going to have a very bad accident.......sooner or latter! becarefull guys! WOW!

 

[MS TreeMonkey]

This guys got MUCH bigger problems than figure 8's and mechanical devices if he's trying to body thrust on a Munter hitch! Gravity and common sense have him pretty square on the coming down part....what he really needs is some straight dope on using friction hitches and spikeless climbing.

I'm not knocking the fella that posted the original thread (I don't recall the handle...sorry) He's learning and trying to transcend his current practices. Kudos to that. Hopefully this site will help you and feel free to PM if you want. I know it's helped me. Good luck.


Thanks bigugly, for the support! I'm really learning everything (about climbing) I know either from Jeff Jepson's book i bought, or from ya'll here on the website. First thing i'll do this morning is make a separate rope that I ONLY use for desending. Yes, I know I'm having major problems trying to body thrust on a Munter hitch i get so frustrated doing it. As for descending - i guess i've been very fortunate because my Munter has NEVER twisted on me - it's gotten a little sticky before after running it through a freshly cut limb with pine pitch, but i guess i've just been kinda lucky. When i tried to tie the blakes hitch it bound so tight on the rope i couldn't slide it up for a body thrust?! I stay so busy that's it's easier to just do it the way i know to do it instead of learning the proper way. I'll have to take half a day and do nothing but practice hitches and knots. Thanks for all the help ya'll have given me on this thread!

 

[MS TreeMonkey]

Ok - what about this - does anyone use the petzl ascenders? Would that be a legitimate solution to my problem, or do you think i'm just side stepping the real problem instead of fixing it. See, i've got 17 pines that i'm supposed to limb sometime this week and i definitely don't want to use spikes to ascend, so i either have to buy a couple of ascenders and footlock or learn a hitch for the body thrust! Go ahead, lemme have it!:yoyo:

 

[Tree Machine]

You should only use ascenders if you want the ascent to be easier. There is nearly zero friction, the ascender won't lock or bind up, and with care will last you your career.


Just because you choose an easy means of ascent over a more difficult one doesn't make you less of a climber, nor do you need to change your overall climbing system. It's not a "instead of". It's an "in addition to". An ascender just allows you more options that weren't there before, both in ascent and certain rigging scenarios.

Backing up that ascender, though, is a must.

I'd still like to see the non-twist Munter version. Please quit trying to use Munter for ascent. It causes all of us pain to see you suffer like that.

 

[Tree Machine]

Instead of a couple ascenders, I'd recommend the Kong Dual ascender. Using TWO seperate ascenders is too many pieces (unless one of them is a Pantin foot ascender) in what should be a simple, straight-forward, uncomplicated, easy-to use system .

This thread, though is about the Munter, so to get into a conversation about ascent with ascenders is just way off topic. There are literally dozens of threads that have to do with the use of ascenders and the backing up of them.

 

[BigUglySquirrel]

Instead of ascenders buy a better rope. I think we talked about it earlier in the thread and the problems you mention with the rope binding could be contributed to the rope type. A 12 or 16 strand climbing line should work nice and smooth for you. You'll be able to go up and down...not just up as with the ascender.

 

[(WLL)]

whatever buddy

[QUOTE.overall the blakes hitch it by far the BEST.[/QUOTE]
well that is a crock of chit

 

[(WLL)]

whatever buddy

i will say screw the 3 strand rope.its much weaker,and 1/2 will not meet ansi standards.get used to the 12 strand 1/2.its by far the best.

thats another crock of chit

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i too think 3 strand meets the tensile standards; and can give more elastic absorbtion of shock than some other lines of same materials. Though it has it's problems, it is cheaper, easier splicing/filed splicing and longer wearing for a lot of uses. i all ways liked it for split tail for Blake's and Tautline; different grip, cheaper, easier to make own pliced eye and longer wearing etc.

To me, a Muenter is a Backhand Hitch on a krab. Placed as a friction brake around a trunk for lowering; it can also be used as a 2/1 inline force in the Bitters to perpendicularly bend the Standing Part to sweat it tighter and/or lift. This moves the BackHand around some, so slip it back proper to straighten Standing and leverage the Standing with the 2/1 Bitters again to take even more purchase of line on your/control side, thereby tensioning line more on the load side of Backhand Hitch(where 'line purchase' length was taken from).

The Backhand can be completed for locking off as a Cow or Timber etc. Also note; when using either Cow or Timber and releasing under tension, we can break them down to Backhand/Muenter, then release pressure gradually/ lower etc. Placed on a krab, we can control light load or self belay with Muenter/ Backhand. But this makes a much tighter bight/ harder on the line and leveraging it weaker than a Backhand/Muenter on a larger mount like trunk etc. But like a fig.8 we can have twisting (hockling in 3 strand) and coiling of the line. This can be partially alleviated by making sure line has no/no twists sleeping in it, not using a stiffer line, allowing tail of line to float or other wise allow twists to come off; and holding the Bitters inline, not perpendicular to the Standing IMLHO. The Muenter/ Backhand takes these complications a step further and grinds the rope against it's own self(as opposed to fig.8). When locking off a Muenter/ Backhand on a krab we will perform 2 Half Hitches after it and say it is 'muled'; rather than using Cow or Timber. Lock off of fig.8 can be in a pinch of Bitters under Standing against the 8 for a soft lock or/ in combination with some 2 overhands strategy around fig.8 for a hard lock.

Backhand on krab/ Muenter should be maid with end of line on spine side of krab, to purposefully not unscrew gate with the running of the Bitters byt he gate. Some even taking extra friction around spine, but this gives more twists too. Also, Backhand/Muenter is reversible; but not if twisted around spine, and the reversing placing a proper tail on spine side to the reverse of the tail on gate side. Still the reverse function can make a soft lock/hold, that force must pop reverse out of, which reverses the tail to hopefully spine side if calculated right. Another problem with Muenter over Friction Hitch, is that the Muenter won't dead man(self lock off unmanned) suddenly by it self if you get coconut dented and pass out etc. while descending. A man on ground can grab tail and stop ya in SRT or DdRT with Muenter though, as it travels fastest on slack line, as opposed to Frictin Hitch passing fastest over a stretched line(but groundie grabbing tail of DdRT will still stop Friction Hitch by running you out of line and you shouldn't descend on Friction Hitch in SRT).

 

[(WLL)]

a munter hitch

another trick that is good 2 know the first pic shows correct hitch used in a dangerous way which can open gate and fail.
the second pic is proper but still and does get used in a wrong way so use great caution and good scents.
thanking the ones that care

 

[JonnyHart]

Right, don't descend a single line with a friction hitch, use the munter or fig 8, and back it up with a prussic or some type of friction hitch.