My Baby Aint Purrin, My Wallets Hurtin and My Hearts is Breakin

[Flouridated]

Howdy All,
So I have been working on many saws for years, but not everyday. I climb and my 201t (around an 08, timing advanced five degrees, exhaust drilled out, best saw I have ever had for 5 years now) started runin the chain fast on idle and it wont adjust out. Also when the tank is full it cuts fine chain races, but around the 5th or 6th med cut it bogs under load then stalls fast chain still races when not under load. When the side handle is up it bogs, when the side handle is down it runs ok for a while, chain races. When the bar is up it runs ok sort of, but when cutting below your feet it bogs and dies. It always races on idle then dies. Air leak?
Parts replaced: Carb kit, intank fuel line and filter, tank vent.
Guesses: Out of tank fuel line to carb? Tank vent line? Intake manifold? Cylinder gasket?
The thing that gets me is the saw position and the tank fuel level. I thought I replaced the relevant parts but I still have the problem. Is this indicative of the intake manifold? I could see it with the saw position, but the fuel level?

 

[Conquistador3]

A leaking "crankshaft" seal is my very first though. The symptoms are all there, but maybe the MS201T has some idiosyncrasy I am not aware of.

 

[TheAMMIXman]

Do the crank seals first. Positions you mentioned and the run conditions would have me changing those first. Think about it, when one is up it might leak more air in than when it’s facing down, or vise versa even. Makes me think crank seals when ever one is facing up or down and funny stuff is happening, not that it couldn’t something else.

Keep in mind I’ve never even touched a Stihl top handle and free advice is worth what you pay for it. Cranks seals first tho.

Good luck. Let us know what fixes it.

 

[buzz sawyer]

Do a vac / pressure test and know for sure. Have you looked at the piston for any scoring that might be caused by a lean condition?

 

[merc_man]

As said above presure vac test. Probly intake boot or crank seals. Make sure anti vibe is not worn out. Puts extra stress on the intake boot.

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

 

[Brushwacker]

Do a vac / pressure test and know for sure. Have you looked at the piston for any scoring that might be caused by a lean condition?

I'd do the crank seals or pressure Vac next ,whichever is easiar of the 2 for u. Symptons sound like a crank seal but that doesn't mean it isn't something else. As mentioned, anti vibe and intake are critical parts that lead to air leaks also, I'd replace both or either if any weakness in either.

 

[vizette]

I thought this post was the start of a new Billy Ray Cyrus song...

 

[Flouridated]

Oil seals! and new clutch springs, broke an old one. Thanks ya'll, the tank level affecting the saw had me chasing hoses. Also ran my saw for a bit with bad antivibes, so I am still worried about the intake boot, but good for now and runnin strong again. Now I have a tool for those seals, I moded an oil seal puller for a larger engine to a thin birds beak and cut off the other side so I could get it in the fly wheel recess. Works great, way better and faster than Stihls puller.

 

[Flouridated]

Do the crank seals first. Positions you mentioned and the run conditions would have me changing those first. Think about it, when one is up it might leak more air in than when it’s facing down, or vise versa even. Makes me think crank seals when ever one is facing up or down and funny stuff is happening, not that it couldn’t something else.

Keep in mind I’ve never even touched a Stihl top handle and free advice is worth what you pay for it. Cranks seals first tho.

Good luck. Let us know what fixes it.

Priceless advice! The saw position and tank level had me chasing other things. On the 201 the handle pulls on the intake boot, so thats a common failure and an eighty dollar part.

Do a vac / pressure test and know for sure. Have you looked at the piston for any scoring that might be caused by a lean condition?

I have not gotten to a point to get a good view of the piston yet, on the top handle saws thats pretty deep. You have to remove the handle/carb assembly then pull the clam shell casing and slide it out. Pain in the ass, when it goes I will just replace the piston and cylinder with after market somethin, any suggestions? I kinda want to hotrod the thing, or maybe just workhorse it.

 

[TheAMMIXman]

On the 201 the handle pulls on the intake boot, so thats a common failure and an eighty dollar part.

I have not gotten to a point to get a good view of the piston yet, on the top handle saws thats pretty deep.

So like I mentioned I never worked on a Stihl top handle, and my Poulan ones do not have antivibe. However, the 046 and MS460 I have have an intake boot also connected to the handle/tank assembly and I would bet that it would certainly wear out if one or all of the AV mounts were soft or torn. Again not sure of a 201 configuration, but if it’s got AV connecting the handle to the case may want to change all the AV rubber when you do the boot.

In looking at the piston/cylinder I would assume on almost any saw removing just the muffler gains fair access to seeing the exhaust side of the piston and the intake side of the cylinder. Pulling the plug can also be helpful at times in viewing stuff not seen thrpigh the exhaust port, depending on plug location, and the viewing hole is much smaller of course.

If you just want to work horse it you may be able to muffler mod it, if it even needs it. Fix it up and use it.

If you want to hot rod it you better start reading and maybe get into porting, learn all about those saws, what the common problems are, what they like for mods and why.

You do those cranks seals yet?

 

[Flouridated]

So like I mentioned I never worked on a Stihl top handle, and my Poulan ones do not have antivibe. However, the 046 and MS460 I have have an intake boot also connected to the handle/tank assembly and I would bet that it would certainly wear out if one or all of the AV mounts were soft or torn. Again not sure of a 201 configuration, but if it’s got AV connecting the handle to the case may want to change all the AV rubber when you do the boot.

In looking at the piston/cylinder I would assume on almost any saw removing just the muffler gains fair access to seeing the exhaust side of the piston and the intake side of the cylinder. Pulling the plug can also be helpful at times in viewing stuff not seen thrpigh the exhaust port, depending on plug location, and the viewing hole is much smaller of course.

If you just want to work horse it you may be able to muffler mod it, if it even needs it. Fix it up and use it.

If you want to hot rod it you better start reading and maybe get into porting, learn all about those saws, what the common problems are, what they like for mods and why.

You do those cranks seals yet?

With the 201t the muffler is located on the bottom of the saw inside clam shell covers, it ends up being one of the last parts you can disassemble so viewing that port is work. The intake side is easier to view , but the intake boot is much more complex than the simple rubber boot on the 200t. I changed the ativibe on the carb side last year and that still looks good.

Also I got those crank seals replaced and now she's running good for the test run. I learned saw work at RMNP in Estes Park. Typical gov't job, a million brand new tools and no one who knows how to use them. There we had Stihls oil seal puller and it sucks. It slips out of the seal. So for this saw I had to mod an oil seal puller for a larger engine. Works way better and faster than Stihls. Left that job about a decade ago and now I sling saws for myself.

As far as mods, I have drilled out the muffler, and advanced the flywheel 3 to 5 degrees, I have not measured that, but it has been running with those mods for about 4 or 5 years and doing great. Way better than most 201's I have run and as good as the 200's if not better. I like moded 201's more than the stock 200, it's lighter!

As far as Hot rodding goes, I have been reading and watching vids about port mapping and porting the transfers. I need to get a timing wheel before I start anything with that. My big questions with that have to do with how far I should try and push it. I don't think I will try to change the port timing, but I am interested in bellowing out the transfers. So many questions! One of which is how does the advancement of the flywheel affect the port timing? It seems like if I try and change the roofs and floors of those ports thats when I will have to pay attention to mapping very close. So I am thinking to just widen the transfers a little for a good starting point and see what that gets me.

Either way I am waiting for the major cylinder mods for a bit on the 201. Got it up and running so I will roll with it for a while. I have a thread started for my first full saw build, a 372xp . I am going to learn cylinder mods on that saw first cause the engine seems easier to learn on, more room to work.

 

[motorhead99999]

I thought this was about someone’s cat dying after dumping thousands in it lol

 

[TheTone]

. . . Now I have a tool for those seals, I moded an oil seal puller for a larger engine to a thin birds beak and cut off the other side so I could get it in the fly wheel recess. Works great, way better and faster than Stihls puller.

Pulling seals is a frequent topic on this forum. Could you post some pics of this puller you made?

 

[SteveSr]

Pulling seals is a frequent topic on this forum. Could you post some pics of this puller you made?

+1

 

[Flouridated]

Yeah, first I went to NAPA and got their oil seal puller, link:
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/SER...+and+Seal+Puller&keywordInput=oil+seal+puller
Then I cut the blunt end off.

Now I see a bit of filing in your future! If it is for small saws you will need to thin that beak out quite a bit. Maybe half on horizontal axis. Also the vertical axis needs thinning and shaping. DON'T TAKE TOO MUCH! You will weaken and bend it.



Works great, takes 10 seconds, seal comes out with almost no damage at all, very easy hardly any pressure needed. Since it comes out so easy, as long as it is set right, the crankcase seating wall seems like it stands less chance for damage.

 

[Flouridated]

Oh yeah, pay close attention to where that tip is, don't scratch the housing walls.

 

[SteveSr]

Oh yeah, pay close attention to where that tip is, don't scratch the housing walls.

So how do you keep the "beak" from scratching the crankshaft? Seems like it would be in contact with it.

BTW, a secret that I have found with the Stihl seal puller is to first loosen the seal by lightly tapping it into the bore slightly. I think that this is mentioned in various repair manuals.

 

[Jkstihl]

I thought this post was the start of a new Billy Ray Cyrus song...

Maybe miley cyrus, her cats probably been mutilated though.

 

[Deleted member 117362]

So how do you keep the "beak" from scratching the crankshaft? Seems like it would be in contact with it.

BTW, a secret that I have found with the Stihl seal puller is to first loosen the seal by lightly tapping it into the bore slightly. I think that this is mentioned in various repair manuals.

It's hard to scratch a crank.

 

[Flouridated]

So how do you keep the "beak" from scratching the crankshaft? Seems like it would be in contact with it.

BTW, a secret that I have found with the Stihl seal puller is to first loosen the seal by lightly tapping it into the bore slightly. I think that this is mentioned in various repair manuals.

Well the beak is made of much softer metal than the crank shaft. Also if you pop your first catch on the seal and it starts moving out, stop, rotate the tool around the crank 20 or 30 degrees and pull it lightly again. By the third reset the seal comes out in almost perfect condition. But never reuse the seals, they are toast.
With the stihl puller you still have to slide those prongs in between the rubber part of the seal and the crank. If I remember correctly those prongs seemed like hard metal. With my birds beak you can position the handle either closer or further away from the crank if you are worried about it. That will change the beaks slant if you need it to, I left mine vertical. DON'T BREAK OR BEND THE BEAK, PULL IN IT'S STRONG ORIENTATION. But keep in mind this puller barely needs any force to work, so you would not need to put force onto the crank. I had my 201t and my 372xp open at the time and I pulled all 4 seals in under 5 min. I used to sweat having to pull those seals, now it's no big deal.

Also this is nothing new. This IS an oil seal puller for larger engines with crankshafts. You just have to mod it so it fits.