:agree2:
My climbing rope is full of pine pitch. Help!
- Thread starter TreeandLand
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lync
ArboristSite Operative
I stand corrected,petroleum distilates in hand cleaner. i was led to believe the main ingrediant was mineral spirits. I guess Tecnu is my new choice. thanks for the info.
Do you have some evidence for this? The pumice in Goop is obviously abrasive, but the chemicals are "corrosive?"
Our plastic ropes are almost completely inert to common hydrocarbon solvents. The evidence for this comes from engineering tables for fibers such as polyester or nylon where their resistance to various chemicals is listed. You can also generate your own evidence with a simple experiment. (I once soaked some fibers in a test tube full of acetone for 10 days. At the end, there was no evident effect.)
This makes it easy to remove pitch (made of various terpenes, another hydrocarbon) with simple solvents such as acetone or denatured alcohol. I have used both of those for years to rub out the pitchy spots. The rope is instantly ready for reuse and there has never been the slightest evidence of any ill effect.
The downside of any treatment capable of dissolving pitch is that it will also dissove the wax with which the rope is treated during manufacture. This seems like a small price to pay for a clean rope.
tree md
Addicted to ArboristSite
Most hand cleaners I have used have been labeled as petroleum based. Unless they have changed ingredients, that is the only evidence I have.
I would however defer to your experience and knowledge of rope. I haven't put in the time nor experimentation on rope stress that you have. All I have is field experience and have been taught from the very beginning that gas and oil is very damaging to rope. I have also been taught to store them in different areas and keep them separated during transportation as I have done for my whole career.
I have heard that acetone is good for removing pitch and dirt and even read it in a book (though I can't remember witch).
Maybe I am the one who stands corrected... I'm still not going to be using petroleum based cleaners on my ropes anytime soon.
I would however defer to your experience and knowledge of rope. I haven't put in the time nor experimentation on rope stress that you have. All I have is field experience and have been taught from the very beginning that gas and oil is very damaging to rope. I have also been taught to store them in different areas and keep them separated during transportation as I have done for my whole career.
I have heard that acetone is good for removing pitch and dirt and even read it in a book (though I can't remember witch).
Maybe I am the one who stands corrected... I'm still not going to be using petroleum based cleaners on my ropes anytime soon.
Thanks for your measured reply, Tree MD. I am completely sympathetic to anyone who hesitates to use organic "solvents" on a rope--it sounds risky.
On the other hand, all the folk remedies like tomato juice, peanut butter, Woolite, laundry detergent, and the like are mixtures of organic chemicals that we simply assume, in our ignorance, to be harmless. Or the pitch itself--why do we think it is harmless to the rope?
I wish the rope manufacturer's would lay this to rest and officially declare that pitch can be safely removed with chemicals A, B, and C, all easily obtained from the hardware store. Then we could all sleep at night and we would all have clean ropes.
On the other hand, all the folk remedies like tomato juice, peanut butter, Woolite, laundry detergent, and the like are mixtures of organic chemicals that we simply assume, in our ignorance, to be harmless. Or the pitch itself--why do we think it is harmless to the rope?
I wish the rope manufacturer's would lay this to rest and officially declare that pitch can be safely removed with chemicals A, B, and C, all easily obtained from the hardware store. Then we could all sleep at night and we would all have clean ropes.
tree md
Addicted to ArboristSite
Personally, I just wash them periodically in a front loading washing machine at the laundry mat, in cold water, with ivory soap. I don't really want to be experimenting with harsh chemicals or solvents on a rope that my lfe is literally on the line with everyday.
As I have mentioned earlier in the thread, Pine pitch has never been that big of a headache to me because pines are what I mostly climbed when I started out. It will rub off on the next tree you climb, get covered in sap again and rub off again. It's just part of the job when you work with a lot of pines.
As I have mentioned earlier in the thread, Pine pitch has never been that big of a headache to me because pines are what I mostly climbed when I started out. It will rub off on the next tree you climb, get covered in sap again and rub off again. It's just part of the job when you work with a lot of pines.
I have contacted Samson rope and Yale cordage with the following question:
*********************************************************************
Does [rope manufacturer] have a recommended procedure for cleaning arborist ropes?
Problems to contend with are: Gas, Oil, pine pitch.
Some suggested solutions listed at ArboristSite.com:
wash in laundry, using laundry soap
soak in woolite
hand wash in acetone
hand wash with handcleaner
hand wash in gasoline
possible problems anticipated:
degradation of rope strength
removal of protective coatings
impregnation with grit or other damaging matierials
*****************************************************************
Let's see if either of them have any comments!
New England Ropes has this to say about rope maintenance:
"Dirt and Cleaning
Dirt on a rope can penetrate the cover strands resulting in abrasion in the core as well as the cover. Water facilitates the introduction of dirt particles into the rope. When climbing in wet conditions, particularly over rock or other areas where dirt is an issue, we recommend using a dry-treated water repellency on the rope.
After a climb, wash rope with fresh water and allow to air dry in direct sunlight. For a more thorough cleaning, soak your rope in warm water mixed with a mild detergent. Add a small amount of fabric softener to soften the rope. When possible, use a front loading washing machine; otherwise, wash your rope in a mesh bag or pillowcase to avoid tangling. Rinse thoroughly and hang to dry in indirect sunlight.
"
As I stated before, and tree md seems to agree, just throw your dirty old rope in the washing machine.
Hopefully, we will resolve this problem with an official consensus from the big three rope manufacturers.
*********************************************************************
Does [rope manufacturer] have a recommended procedure for cleaning arborist ropes?
Problems to contend with are: Gas, Oil, pine pitch.
Some suggested solutions listed at ArboristSite.com:
wash in laundry, using laundry soap
soak in woolite
hand wash in acetone
hand wash with handcleaner
hand wash in gasoline
possible problems anticipated:
degradation of rope strength
removal of protective coatings
impregnation with grit or other damaging matierials
*****************************************************************
Let's see if either of them have any comments!
New England Ropes has this to say about rope maintenance:
"Dirt and Cleaning
Dirt on a rope can penetrate the cover strands resulting in abrasion in the core as well as the cover. Water facilitates the introduction of dirt particles into the rope. When climbing in wet conditions, particularly over rock or other areas where dirt is an issue, we recommend using a dry-treated water repellency on the rope.
After a climb, wash rope with fresh water and allow to air dry in direct sunlight. For a more thorough cleaning, soak your rope in warm water mixed with a mild detergent. Add a small amount of fabric softener to soften the rope. When possible, use a front loading washing machine; otherwise, wash your rope in a mesh bag or pillowcase to avoid tangling. Rinse thoroughly and hang to dry in indirect sunlight.
"
As I stated before, and tree md seems to agree, just throw your dirty old rope in the washing machine.
Hopefully, we will resolve this problem with an official consensus from the big three rope manufacturers.
Samson does state that UV does not degrade their Amsteel Blue, and that petroleum products will not damage it, either. They DO state that it should NOT be exposed to bleach.
Along that line, I would guess that bleaching any rope would be a bad idea.
Along that line, I would guess that bleaching any rope would be a bad idea.
flushcut
Addicted to ArboristSite
Did anybody try bleach as a cleaner to add to the long list of voodoo cures?:monkey: 
Pdqdl, one problem with the washing machine idea is that you expose the whole rope to the treatment when there are only 4 spots with some pitch on them. If the mild detergent or whatever is really able to dissolve the pitch (I am dubious) you now have the dissolved pitch everywhere in the water volume, including throughout the wetted rope. Parts of the rope that were previously as clean as the driven snow now are soaked with dilute pitch. Some of it will certainly stay there.
Using a tiny rag dampened with acetone, I can rub out just the affected spots leaving the rest of the rope unaffected. My method will also leave some pitch in the rope--that is unavoidable--but I like the idea of a local remedy for a local problem.
Good on you, BTW, for contacting the manufacturers! If their legal departments don't get in the way, maybe they will tell you something useful.
tree md
Addicted to ArboristSite
Washing your ropes in the washing machine will help with the pitch but like I said, if you deal with pines on a daily basis you will be doing a lot of washing. I never really let it worry me too much. It did not effect my friction hitch or impede my climbing and I would be in a Pine the next day so I would just let it hop. Ropes are made to be worked and get dirty. Just part of the game. And I never was into polishing off my ropes at the end of a long, hard day, I am more into polishing off an ice cold beer.
The reason for washing the ropes in the machine is not necessarily to git rid of the pine sap, it is to clean them and free them from the fine grit that invariably works it's way into the core of the rope and destroys the fibers from the inside out. That's why every manufacturer recommends washing the whole rope in a machine periodically.
The reason for washing the ropes in the machine is not necessarily to git rid of the pine sap, it is to clean them and free them from the fine grit that invariably works it's way into the core of the rope and destroys the fibers from the inside out. That's why every manufacturer recommends washing the whole rope in a machine periodically.
I had never considered the "localized cleaning" problem.
Every time our ropes get sticky in a white pine, EVERYTHING is sticky. Climber, climbers clothes, lanyard, hair, skin, chainsaw handles, steering wheel of truck... basically anything that got touched that day.
When we get a white pine, it is invariable perfectly healthy, and having a good time flowing sap up the tree to get even with us for cutting on it. White pines literally rain sap in the summertime, at least in this part of the country.
I was training a climber last year (who said he had been doing it for years! Ho! Ho! Ho! ) that got stuck in the white pine pitch, because his Blake's hitch would not slide down. He was completely exhausted because he lacked technique and wouldn't trust his equipment, so he was always using up his burly arm strength until it was all gone. He finally got down before we
could arrange to cut him down, but it took at least 45 minutes. No, he never went up another tree for me.
Every time our ropes get sticky in a white pine, EVERYTHING is sticky. Climber, climbers clothes, lanyard, hair, skin, chainsaw handles, steering wheel of truck... basically anything that got touched that day.
When we get a white pine, it is invariable perfectly healthy, and having a good time flowing sap up the tree to get even with us for cutting on it. White pines literally rain sap in the summertime, at least in this part of the country.
I was training a climber last year (who said he had been doing it for years! Ho! Ho! Ho! ) that got stuck in the white pine pitch, because his Blake's hitch would not slide down. He was completely exhausted because he lacked technique and wouldn't trust his equipment, so he was always using up his burly arm strength until it was all gone. He finally got down before we
could arrange to cut him down, but it took at least 45 minutes. No, he never went up another tree for me.
Samson Rope responds:
This is the entirety of what Samson had to say to my inquiry posted above:
**************************************************************
Hello David,
Assuming these are polyester ropes, then the acetone and gasoline are no problem for the fiber itself, however you are correct-that they will probably remove the coatings on the ropes. If these are polypro ropes then it's a different story.
I would suggest starting out with the mildest cleaner and working up from there if needed, so start with the soaps then work up to the chemical cleaners.
Thank you,
[ name deleted by PDQDL]
Technical Service Rep
**************************************************************
You'll probably notice that they did not respond to the issue of machine washing. I'm pretty sure that no amount of machine wash will be equal to the abuse we put the ropes through.
This is the entirety of what Samson had to say to my inquiry posted above:
**************************************************************
Hello David,
Assuming these are polyester ropes, then the acetone and gasoline are no problem for the fiber itself, however you are correct-that they will probably remove the coatings on the ropes. If these are polypro ropes then it's a different story.
I would suggest starting out with the mildest cleaner and working up from there if needed, so start with the soaps then work up to the chemical cleaners.
Thank you,
[ name deleted by PDQDL]
Technical Service Rep
**************************************************************
You'll probably notice that they did not respond to the issue of machine washing. I'm pretty sure that no amount of machine wash will be equal to the abuse we put the ropes through.
Detergent vs Pitch
Various people have recommended using mild soap, Woolite, or detergent to clean pitch from ropes. I decided to test the efficacy of strong detergent. In a test tube I put a mixture of 3 parts water and one part liquid laundry detergent. For those who are math challenged, this would be roughly the equivalent of using a gallon of liquid detergent to wash a rope in the washing machine.
I collected fresh glistening pitch from an Eastern white pine using the head of a galvanized nail. After collecting roughly 3 drops of pitch, I plunked the nail into the soap (first photo).
The next day, 15 hours later, it looked unchanged. When I shook it, however, many small bits broke loose and it was clear that some of the pitch had dissolved. I shook it at least a dozen times over the next 15 hours, and it appeared the nail was slowly getting cleaner. The next photo shows the nail 30 hours after the beginning of the experiment.
A small amount of pitch still adheres to the nail, and there is still a cloud of small undissolved bits, not clear in the photo, swimming in the wash.
Various people have recommended using mild soap, Woolite, or detergent to clean pitch from ropes. I decided to test the efficacy of strong detergent. In a test tube I put a mixture of 3 parts water and one part liquid laundry detergent. For those who are math challenged, this would be roughly the equivalent of using a gallon of liquid detergent to wash a rope in the washing machine.
I collected fresh glistening pitch from an Eastern white pine using the head of a galvanized nail. After collecting roughly 3 drops of pitch, I plunked the nail into the soap (first photo).
The next day, 15 hours later, it looked unchanged. When I shook it, however, many small bits broke loose and it was clear that some of the pitch had dissolved. I shook it at least a dozen times over the next 15 hours, and it appeared the nail was slowly getting cleaner. The next photo shows the nail 30 hours after the beginning of the experiment.
A small amount of pitch still adheres to the nail, and there is still a cloud of small undissolved bits, not clear in the photo, swimming in the wash.
treeclimber101
UNCLE BUCK
Think of it as a 200 mistake replace it and next time use a false crotch , or save the jacked up rope for pine trees ...
Labman
ArboristSite Guru
Ordinary liquid cooking oil will cut a lot of stuff. It doesn't produce flammable fumes. It doesn't evaporate either. You may still need to finish up with soap and water.
That is a nice experiment, Moray, but it really isn't good chemistry. I don't know if you are familiar with the concept of solubility, but three drops in a test tube might not be equivalent to a pitchy rope in a tub of water.
Since you have the pine pitch source worked out, why don't you take a small section of clean rope (one of your exploded splices should work nicely), pitch it up real good, and then test it in some woolite, or just toss it in the washer?
I don't have any photo's but I wish I took some pictures of the last rope I washed. It came out looking new.
Since you have the pine pitch source worked out, why don't you take a small section of clean rope (one of your exploded splices should work nicely), pitch it up real good, and then test it in some woolite, or just toss it in the washer?
I don't have any photo's but I wish I took some pictures of the last rope I washed. It came out looking new.
Last edited:
Yale Cordage responds with an excellent answer!
This is NOT what you would expect. Who would have thought it?
Use PINE SOL for removing pine pitch from ropes!
(and your ropes will smell so clean and fresh, too!)
They are distinctly against acetone or gasoline on ropes.
Yale took a while, but they finally sent me this answer:
********[ Yale Cordage added comments are shown in bold italic]****************
David, I hope this helps.
Does Yale cordage have a recommended procedure for cleaning arborist ropes? Yes, non abrasive cleansers with a preference to an all natural cleaner
Problems to contend with are: Gas, Oil, pine pitch.
Some suggested solutions listed at ArboristSite.com:
wash in laundry, using laundry soap - as long as it is non abrasive - no bleach
soak in Woolite -
hand wash in acetone - absolutely not!!
hand wash with hand cleaner -
hand wash in gasoline - Absolutely not!!!
possible problems anticipated:
degradation of rope strength
removal of protective coatings
impregnation with grit or other damaging materials
Our recommendation is to use Pine Sol to remove pine sap. Its all natural and when used in moderation it can remove sap.
Do not under any circumstances use anything like gas or acetone to clean your ropes. They may look ok when done but they will fail due to the high chemical concentration.
When cleaning a rope, its amazing what just a little water in a bucket will do
I hope this helps,
Kind regards,
[name deleted by pdqdl]
Senior Account Manager
Yale Cordage
77 Industrial Park Rd
Saco, Maine 04072
This is NOT what you would expect. Who would have thought it?
Use PINE SOL for removing pine pitch from ropes!
(and your ropes will smell so clean and fresh, too!)
They are distinctly against acetone or gasoline on ropes.
Yale took a while, but they finally sent me this answer:
********[ Yale Cordage added comments are shown in bold italic]****************
David, I hope this helps.
Does Yale cordage have a recommended procedure for cleaning arborist ropes? Yes, non abrasive cleansers with a preference to an all natural cleaner
Problems to contend with are: Gas, Oil, pine pitch.
Some suggested solutions listed at ArboristSite.com:
wash in laundry, using laundry soap - as long as it is non abrasive - no bleach
soak in Woolite -
hand wash in acetone - absolutely not!!
hand wash with hand cleaner -
hand wash in gasoline - Absolutely not!!!
possible problems anticipated:
degradation of rope strength
removal of protective coatings
impregnation with grit or other damaging materials
Our recommendation is to use Pine Sol to remove pine sap. Its all natural and when used in moderation it can remove sap.
Do not under any circumstances use anything like gas or acetone to clean your ropes. They may look ok when done but they will fail due to the high chemical concentration.
When cleaning a rope, its amazing what just a little water in a bucket will do
I hope this helps,
Kind regards,
[name deleted by pdqdl]
Senior Account Manager
Yale Cordage
77 Industrial Park Rd
Saco, Maine 04072
Last edited:
flushcut
Addicted to ArboristSite
And the plot thickens! I have not used anything on my lines sense climbing a pine and the next tree an ash used the same line and the pitch just wore off.
