My next project

[coffeecraver]

The assumption from 1000's of miles away is indeed an assumption. However the previous topping cuts that are in plain view as well as the dead limbs ,and ripped out limbs ,make it obvious to (even the person that does not climb),that the tree has a degree of decay.That degree is hanging over the house ,fence,and walls,as well as the possibility of people in the area.That makes the tree a hazard even from 1000+ miles away.

A Hazard tree requires a Target, This tree has several.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Topping cuts do not sessesarilly create a high risk of failure. They will elevate it.

You need to visually inspect the area of attatchemnt to give the high rating.

Cutting down previously topped trees just because, is as bad as topping. IMHO

 

[Toddppm]

but previously topped Siberian Elms that show subtantial dieback anyways...........

My bro-inlaw has one of these trees in his yard overhanging the house, thing always dropping dead limbs slime flux oozing out of most major leads. We deadwooded it for him a couple years ago. I've been watching this tree for about 6 years and it was looking worse and worse, but then wouldn't you know this past year with all the rain we had it looks pretty good. We were in a drought for the previous 5 years?

 

[MasterBlaster]

Does anyone have a link concerning tree care brochures that can be given to a client?

 

[NeTree]

The ISA has brochures that can be handed out. Don't recall the costs, etc. though. Look them up on their website.

The ISA Website

 

[MasterBlaster]

Cool, Erik. Thanks!

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by MasterBlaster
Does anyone have a link concerning tree care brochures that can be given to a client?

www.treesaregood.com The most useful imo i sMature Tree Care; it mentions Inspection as the #1 job, and removal as the final option when all others have been explored.

Most of the others are very good; all are free for the looking :Eye: or downloading.
Cost is ~$20./100 if you want to have them on hand; an excellent investment for anyone doing Commercial Tree Care--and since that's the title of this forum, that means you, right?:blob6:

 

[NeTree]

Thanks, Guy. I was going to change my link- I forgot they moved them over to t.a.g.

There's a few other good ones, too.

 

[coffeecraver]

The following replys to this post were considered when I posted my reply.


John Paul Sanborn
Subcontracting Arborist - Consulting Arborist
Southeastern Wisconsin *****

Species is a problem, Siberian elm tends to canker and decay easily.
That one seems past it's safe & useful life

Guy Meilleur
Arboristsite MVP

If I had to remove it, I'd first look at the owner's ins policy, and check the roofs for damage SEE BELOW (ADJACENT TARGET)
--even slight--and help him file a claim.
Failing that, I'd sub a crane and a good climber and work as second climber or groundie and see
how it's done.



" Siberian elm tends to canker and decay easily. That one seems past it's safe & useful life."
HAZARD" THE COMBINATION OF A FAILURE OF A TREE (OR PART)
WITH THE PRESENCE OF A ADJACIENT TARGET

Hard to judge from the picture. Callusing on older cuts looks fairly good. Growth from topped
ends seems like it could be thinned with acceptable results. Did not see any canker in the picture
--did you? And how do you factor canker in a risk assessment? Not all canker is reason for removal, is it?

The assumption that one has to climb to know what he is talking about is bogus.

Trees do not heal they seal. This statement if true would indicate that the tree has been decaying since the topping and dead has been in the tree. The outside may callus but the inside continued to rot as the first 3 walls failed. The inside of the tree at several points is most likely hollow.

I would rather tell the client from day 1,and not give out false hope for a dollar.
My question would be how much money can you make on this tree since only 25% can be taken at a time off of this tree and that would be over a period of time,several trips?

Is it Good to return 5-6 times to manage the tree,and then when the tree fails you remind the client that the work you did was not guarenteed to save the tree? Is hazard abatement practical at the cost involved ?


By the looks of the location of the tree it would take a crane or bucket truck if it can get close enough to it to take it down.
All of the money used to try to save the tree plus the ultimate take down adds up . A few more years for a tree that is going to be twice as ugly as it is now in the future? I think Not.

The money required to remove the tree would have been better spent in the beginning.

Some trees are worth saving ,but not at the risk of damageing the people or property with an unexpected failure. This tree is not in the front of a manicured lawn.

 

[MasterBlaster]

I would love to deconstruct that sapling, crane or no crane.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by coffeecraver

The assumption that one has to climb to know what he is talking about is bogus. ..the inside continued to rot as the first 3 walls failed. The inside of the tree at several points is most likely hollow.
Assumptions, guesses and theories are of little use to a tree owner compared to data collected from a man in a tree.

Is hazard abatement practical at the cost involved ?
Sometimes yes, you can buy decades of useful life. Sometimes no, too costly or too hazardous. Only after an aerial assessment of the tree's condition can a tree owner decide this.

This tree is not in the front of a manicured lawn.

Yes, site makes a difference in value to the tree owner. Proximity to lawn can be a negative as well as a positive. Cooling power, windbreak, air purification are values that count. But a little birdie told me:

"The homeowner wants
it out. B/c it has to be accessed by a climber (rather than a bucket) and needs to be craned out, he can't find anyone in this town to do it. The tree sits about 2 feet behind his garage. It has done property damage to
his house and his neighbors house in the past. Trunk rot is not an issue.

I hate to comment too much on the upper reaches, but there are obviously large chunks of deadwood and from up close there is decay in many of the topping cuts. His b/y looks like a jungle. This is far from the only tree on his property. The whole b/y is shaded. I suggested that we could simply take out the
deadwood, but he is not interested in this solution.

Regarding the "mudslide" theory . . . not an issue. He has a well built retaining wall in place and the idea that this area immediately behind his garage will now
erode is misplaced. In any event, we are going to leave a 3 foot stump in the ground for aesthetic purposes (i.e., he thinks it would look neat).

In summary, the tree is in decline, it has a history of property damage, it has *some degree of decay* at its heading cuts, it can be culled from the property with only marginal impact on the b/y environs, and the owner wants it out."

It will be a physical thrill for someone to rig it down. Whoopee. (Presence of decay does not mean the whole organism is shot--if it was, I'd be killed for my athlete's foot. Should a man fear a mushroom?) It would be a greater thrill to measure the decay and the vigor and everything else, and help the owner make an informed decision. Yes, it may be money wasted to do so. But it may not.

You can't know the ocean when you're standing on the beach. Even if you're 300 pounds you can get up into a tree.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Originally posted by Guy Meilleur

Even if you're 300 pounds you can get up into a tree.

Were you thinking of me, or Mike?

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by John Paul Sanborn
Were you thinking of me, or Mike?

You I've seen, Mike I haven't, but others 250+ lbs get around ok in a tree. Point there is any physical limitation can be overcome; same goes for the psychological ones tho they can be tougher...

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I ment Oxman. Maas is a little guy next to us two. Bigger then you though

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Yeah and I'm shrinkin too. 170's are in sight; marathon shape by spring??? tryin to keep the bod climbin for a while longer--Fun Fun Fun till my daddy(father time) takes my T-Bird awayeyay...

 

[rbtree]

This could be you, Guy!

Disclaimer, don't try this at home..

Also, not my photo...

 

[rbtree]

So, Neb Climber, are you and John going to do the tree?

What's the dbh? Species? Sure looks a bit like a cottonwood to me?

Seems like a valid removal candidate..maybe safe to do without a crane...2000-2500 with or without. If access is close, I'd use my crane guy with the little 17m ton boom truck, plenty for that tree, and $350 to him, max.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Hey Rog, you two are about of a size. So you could loan him some skis to take that on!

No, we won't be doing it. It was not cost effective to bring me and my partner out there, and he only had the one tree to put us on at right now. with stops, it is a 20+ hour round trip...

Maybe we can work something out next time I go to CO to work for Freddie. I usually stay in Lincoln on my way through.