My Timber hitch came loose today

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tree md

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Not while I was lowering anything but it came loose while I had my block tied low on a tree using it as a snatch block to redirect a bull line to pull a large stump over. Was having a little trouble getting all the way through a large stump with my 044 and 25" bar. Had a little meat left in the stump but it was rotten in the center and was rocking before I tried to snatch it over with the block, bull line and truck. I snatched it a couple of times real hard and the Timber hitch came undone on the third pull. Had it tied about 3' off the ground with 6 coils and 2 overhand knots to back it up and it still came undone and completely off the tree. It was not hanging down as it would in a normal blocking situation in the tree, it was pulled out parallel with the Tenex sling. Kind of made me think of what could possibly happen while blocking big wood, although I am normally retying my knot after every piece. However, I will often set my block high and lower multiple limbs without retying my Timber hitch and it is not always easy to inspect the block when lowering remotely.

Comments?
 
That is why I hate the timber hitch. It will loosen if you cycle the loading. You also have to set it so the the load pulls into the bight, causing the working end to bend some. Otherwise the hitch will slide and loosen, the pulling into the bight tightens the hitch.

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In my experiance, tieing it like this will cause it to slide. you should not see your twist if looking down the rope a pulley is run through.
 
This also lends itself to twisting and having the block turn around where the clevis is on the side facing the tree. I have to constantly keep an eye on that when lowering remotely. What do you use John? I have used the Cow hitch before but that takes a lot more line than the Timber hitch. Any other alternatives?
 
This also lends itself to twisting and having the block turn around where the clevis is on the side facing the tree. I have to constantly keep an eye on that when lowering remotely. What do you use John? I have used the Cow hitch before but that takes a lot more line than the Timber hitch. Any other alternatives?

Cow/stilson if I am load cycling. If I have to I will break out a spare rigging line and use it.
 
I have a one-eye spliced sling but don't use it much any more.

How about an adjustable sling? Why not use that instead?

Is there an advantage to using a one-eye spliced sling over an adjustable sling?

StihlRockin'
 
I used to tie the timber hitch often when I first got started, because that's how I was taught. My old man put me onto the clove hitch. I use the clove hitch almost exclusively now when rigging off a vertical leader or spar. If I have a crotch to work with, I may use the timber hitch to set a block, but almost always its a clove hitch backed with two half hitches or a running bowline using a 3/4" stable braid eye sling to hang the block. Really not a huge fan of the timber hitch because of it's tendency to come undone when lowering multiple sections. It does work good for me when I'm pulling a spar over though, as constant tension is placed on the line, so there is less chance of the hitch working itself loose. I will not descend on a timber hitch.
 
Is there an advantage to using a one-eye spliced sling over an adjustable sling?

Cost maybe, you more then double the cordage cost, and have three splices on a loopie, then again the WLL is near double too.

The problem is where is your point of diminishing returns; if you have a 40 dbh tree then your basal C value is over 10ft. Therefore I prefer to use an old line vs keeping a huge loopie on hand.
 
I have a one-eye spliced sling but don't use it much any more.

How about an adjustable sling? Why not use that instead?

Is there an advantage to using a one-eye spliced sling over an adjustable sling?

StihlRockin'

I used to use a smaller woopie sling for rigging with my block but we do a LOT of ponderosa pine removals. They are full of gooey pitch which gets all over the sling and makes it dang near impossible to adjust in the tree without screaming obscenities. For this reason, I went to a dead-eye sling. All I use is a timber hitch. I rig with it and if the job is not done at the end of the day, I descend from it. This thread is worrying me now. Guess I need to look up some of your guys' suggestions.
 
good feedback... have never trusted timber hitches even though just about everyone uses them. prefer a running bowline with a double fisherman backup.

non arborist related, but I've seen folks use a timber hitch on a large tree as their main anchor to repel a group of scouts over a 75 ft cliff. arrrgggg... makes me shiver thinking about it.

went over and told the scout leader, he was nuts using a timber hitch as a main anchor point. he looked at me like I was nuts...
 
idk what its called but i usually go around the tree, around the block/portawrap, then tie a few (3-4) overhand knots on the rope. i leave a large enough loop that the device can be put through when i'm done and then untied so that you dont have to fight for slack when untying. it sort of acts like a friction knot, you can reuse the same knot later if you are blocking down a tree by sliding the knots over a bit. i used to use the timber hitch, never had it fail like you describe if it was tied right with enough wraps
 
non arborist related, but I've seen folks use a timber hitch on a large tree as their main anchor to repel a group of scouts over a 75 ft cliff. arrrgggg... makes me shiver thinking about it. ...

I have seen same, in fact I have seen it used as an anchor point for tree climbers.
 
Thanks for the replies to my questions guys. Never being a smart a$$. Always trying to learn.

Thanks.


StihlRockin'
 
I like the first crossing over itself for the eye to be against any slight anticipated pull direction; but best is a straight pull.

To me, Timber Hitch is a simple mechanic/art; of like a loose eye splice. But to maximize; the simple mechanisms must be applied precisely, i think you must watch for some things. Then remember too, that it is meant to be loaded in 1 direction and constantly(as pointed out by taller peoples) to maintain it's 'trap' on itself. And all points of contact that 'nip'/pinch the tail must be at firmly convex positions; we are building a quick machine etc.

The direction of pull should be perpendicular to the mount; for this places the back of the hitch inline with the initiating force of the Standing (Tension?) Part. If these aren't inline, i think of the mechanics as leveraged. Also, too; at this angle, and not lowering, you can have a pointed/not flat teepee where eye bends Standing; giving less intense deformity; so less tensile strength loss. The flatter the teepee the more tension forced (like when cinching up tight). So that, on loading the initiating force of the Standing; is leveraged higher by the flatter teepee/ from a more deformed Standing. i think if you know these things; and target them you can throw a positive machine/hitch into use; polishing each point from habit. Side by side, it might jest look like the old guy is just luckier; but what if he is just tucking and aligning right? Notice too, inolder tymes/ 3 strand, the lay of the line too, is a consideration; in fact the line itself is all ways a consideration..

"Ashley's Book of Knots" ; breaks these types of hitches into 2 separate chapters; back to back. Pulls to Rail (perpendicular) and Hitches to Spar (inline pull); i think that is because the mechanical differences are that intense. In general for inline pull with timber, you wold precede with a Half or Marl to make Killick etc.; i think to correct the mechanics, get another grab to secure, make more shock worthy etc.

These few ABoK pages, also show small nuances to maximize. Like, bringing the eye a full/ Round Turn around the Standing 1669( i think of as to firm; and attempt to restabilize somewhat the suddenly destabilized/ altered position of the sudden bend in the loaded Standing/ and the impacts of it's suddenness). Nipping is of more consideration farther away from Standing 1663(closer to Standing is where the securing pinch/nip is less intense, or actually pulls away from spar, notice the skull by 1662 as warning), to the opposite side from Standing (where back of hitch is seating most firmly into spar/mount)coming over, then under 1666, 1668, 1669(which gives both more friction reduction before nip/pinch and places the nip out further).
 
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I like the first crossing over itself for the eye to be against any slight anticipated pull direction; but best is a straight pull.

To me, Timber Hitch is a simple mechanic/art; of like a loose eye splice. But to maximize; the simple mechanisms must be applied precisely, i think you must watch for some things. Then remember too, that it is meant to be loaded in 1 direction and constantly(as pointed out by taller peoples) to maintain it's 'trap' on itself. And all points of contact that 'nip'/pinch the tail must be at firmly convex positions; we are building a quick machine etc.

The direction of pull should be perpendicular to the mount; for this places the back of the hitch inline with the initiating force of the Standing (Tension?) Part. If these aren't inline, i think of the mechanics as leveraged. Also, too; at this angle, and not lowering, you can have a pointed/not flat teepee where eye bends Standing; giving less intense deformity; so less tensile strength loss. The flatter the teepee the more tension forced (like when cinching up tight). So that, on loading the initiating force of the Standing; is leveraged higher by the flatter teepee/ from a more deformed Standing. i think if you know these things; and target them you can throw a positive machine/hitch into use; polishing each point from habit. Side by side, it might jest look like the old guy is just luckier; but what if he is just tucking and aligning right? Notice too, inolder tymes/ 3 strand, the lay of the line too, is a consideration; in fact the line itself is all ways a consideration..

"Ashley's Book of Knots" ; breaks these types of hitches into 2 separate chapters; back to back. Pulls to Rail (perpendicular) and Hitches to Spar (inline pull); i think that is because the mechanical differences are that intense. In general for inline pull with timber, you wold precede with a Half or Marl to make Killick etc.; i think to correct the mechanics, get another grab to secure, make more shock worthy etc.

These few ABoK pages, also show small nuances to maximize. Like, bringing the eye a full/ Round Turn around the Standing 1669( i think of as to firm; and attempt to restabilize somewhat the suddenly destabilized/ altered position of the sudden bend in the loaded Standing/ and the impacts of it's suddenness). Nipping is of more consideration farther away from Standing 1663(closer to Standing is where the securing pinch/nip is less intense, or actually pulls away from spar, notice the skull by 1662 as warning), to the opposite side from Standing (where back of hitch is seating most firmly into spar/mount)coming over, then under 1666, 1668, 1669(which gives both more friction reduction before nip/pinch and places the nip out further).

OK, I'm trying to get a mental image of what you are saying. I should have tied the timber hitch where it was on the side of the tree? 90 degrees from the angle of the pull. I'm having trouble getting a picture in my mind. I like those diagrams from ABOK. They have mentioned that in the book I'm reading now, "On Rope". I think I might pickup the Ashley book too. Really cool how they reference the olden text.
 
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