My trustworthy 056---NOT! (long)

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foggysail

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Determination, perseverance and a sudden desire for pure pain and aggravation forces me to continue to get my %$#@* Stihl 056 running reliably..........oh, the need to cut too many 20-26" diameter maple & oak trees helps also. My old reliable McCulloch 610 requires too much effort this type of cutting.

First problem was solving the infamous Bosch ---I run until I don't ----- ignition. Fixed that with a design change although before I finish this post, I might convince you that more changes are needed....maybe! So with all my known problems under control, I started off again. Now remember, I am no expert on ANYTHING especially cutting wood.

So I took my trustworthy 056 to one of those trees I mentioned above and cut the sucker down! Next without cutting up the first tree, I dropped a second. Next I took old trustworthy to the task of making big pieces small. Just the sound of that that nice raw alone made my day until the bar tip hit one of the felled trees, knocked the chain off the bar and before I could shut the pig down, the chain continued fly in the air, whipping around as I fought to close the choke ...bad shut off switch. Yeah, I did finally pick up all the pieces.

My brand new 24" chain got chewed up to the point where it could not fit into the bar. So I got out my grinder and ground off all the rough spots only to see many spots where the chain fits into the bar shortened but I thought it would be OK. NO, not OK! I installed it and found I could not move the chain because it was getting hung up in the sprocket.

Next course of action.........2 each new 24" chains along with a new chain sprocket. Where would I be without all this excitement and fun? Now back to the wood pile, better make that trees on the ground that need to be cut to make the wood pile.

Finally with Old Trustworthy humming if one wants to consider a 056's RAW humming, I started cutting. And that thing can ...could really cut!!! I was going thought these logs with ease. 18-20" cuts in a matter of a minute or two until what sound like a SHOOTGUN....BANG!!! The saw blew the muffler off!! I didn't want to stop, muffler or not so I restarted the pig and went about cutting until the next time when it blew off the carburetor cover and stalled!

Damned! Another adventure! It took awhile for me to decide that I needed to look at the ignition so back to my work bench. I thought removing the flywheel would be a piece of cake....did it before. But after several whacks followed by several more, I was able to remove the flywheel! But now a funny thing happened on the way to the forum! The crank shaft seems to bind a bit when I rotate it. I believe I damaged it...........ready now to puke.

So this is where I am at as I type......for those of you who got this far.........! I just order a crankshaft/case for $35 + ship from Ebay. I intend or at least hope to move the piston/cylinder combo over to the replacement case and reassemble this thing of mine.

But back to the ignition because that is important. What I believe occurred is the spark became random and caused the backfiring...forward firing or whatever you want to call it. And I just posted a solution to the ignition problem or at least a solution to the problems known to me at that time.

There are two electronic circuits in the ignition. The first circuit, the one that I believe was the cause for lack of spark is designed to store energy that is used to develop the spark. The second circuit is energized by the rotating magnets to discharge the stored energy. My hunch is the second circuit has a component failure that will result in the discharge switch firiing at random. This is a long wordy post where I have tried to add a little humor needed to control my rage with the 056. But it is important to know if others have had a problem with the 044/056 blowing the mufflers off. I will post a separate discussion to see if this is more common than I believe.

That's about it : -(

Foggy
 
Guess it depends on how much you want that particular saw to work. A lot of effort has gone into it, but..dunno man. Plenty of used good runners out there. I have a few I know I could make work with enough effort and part$, but..relegated to just parts saws themselves now.
 
You will have to try to tap the crankshaft back, tapping on the pto end. Take it easy, unload the energy you stored in the crank case... hold the saw in the air from the front handle while you tap...



SOME SMART GUYS HERE ON THE FORUM!!!!!!!!

Yes, I tapped it in the opposite direction and that immediately freed the crankshaft. I plan to put this together one last time after making a change to the ignition. The ignition is the only thing I can relate to the saw blowing the muffler along with the carburetor cover off the engine. If anybody has a different suggestion, please share it.

Zogger--- It just p***es me off that I cannot fix this thing. This is my last attempt and if I fail you will soon see it posted on EBay. I have no personal love and affection for it as you can tell by my earlier descriptions calling it a pig.

Foggy
 
GEEZ--- I wonder if the blown muffler could be related to timing. I keep thinking about 4 strokes but this a two stroke so if the burning is not completed by the time the piston gets near the exhaust maybe that could be the issue. I know that I have the saw retarded to the limit of the ignition.

I can envision how this might be able to take the muffler off but not the carburetor cover. Ideas anybody?
 
The circuit is attached. The top of the drawing shows the charging inductor that drives current into C1 thereby charging it to somewhere in the 200 volt range. It just sits there charged until the SCR fires. Think of the SCR as a switch. The SCR is triggered when capacitor C2 gets charged to about 2-3 volts. There is a reversed polarity magnet attached to the flywheel that charges this guy through the HV pulse transformer.

The main cause for the ignition failure is related to capacitor C1 shorting out. The fix I posted here in the forum cuts that capacitor from the circuit and describes how to attach a replacement capacitor along with the wiring. The "fix" brings back the missing spark needed for firing the spark plug
 

Attachments

  • Stihl ignition circuit.pdf
    45.6 KB
It was definitely and experience. If the flywheel was set correctly perhaps the saw either started detonating, firing during compression on the upstroke. Or perhaps your carb had pooled fuel in the exhaust and intake manifold.

These are just guesses as I don't know that ignition system. An ignition should trigger when the magnet says too. A friendly warning, it's dangerous for the saw to run with no muffler, it can cause damage to the saw or start a fire.

BTW detonation occurs from low octane fuel in stock 2-stroke engines...
 
It was definitely and experience. If the flywheel was set correctly perhaps the saw either started detonating, firing during compression on the upstroke. Or perhaps your carb had pooled fuel in the exhaust and intake manifold.

These are just guesses as I don't know that ignition system. An ignition should trigger when the magnet says too. A friendly warning, it's dangerous for the saw to run with no muffler, it can cause damage to the saw or start a fire.

BTW detonation occurs from low octane fuel in stock 2-stroke engines...


I was thinking after giving thought to this being a two cycle engine. I didn't measure how much the saw is retarded, it is set as far as possible. So that delays firing, just maybe to the point where unburned gas remains in the combustion chamber as the piston passes by the exhaust opening. That could put pressure on the muffler. If that occurs, the pressure in the combustion chamber is very low because the exhaust port is open to the atmosphere.....so burning could continue but without much force. If that happens.....geez....I am guessing so this could be right off the wall...........if that happens there could still be burning at the time the piston starts on the up stroke where new fuel is sucked into the combustion chamber. If so with burning still going on from the previous firing,,,,, it might blow back into the carburetor.

Heck--- does anybody have experience running a saw highly retarded???

Foggy
 
I believe when the 031 ignition would go out and people try nova modules there is a possibility of timing being way retarded. From what I have read there isn't much power and the muffler glows red. Not sure if that helps you.
On a completely different note I installed one of those little ignition modules from a cutoff saw. It retarded the timing,I was told it would , so I hooked up a timing light and used a drill to turn it over and measure timing. I think you could try that with your fix. ;)
 
Hummmm, I've got 2 to 3 hours on my foggy fix and is running fine? I intend to run a couple more hours tomorrow. I'll let you know. deereguy
 
Hummmm, I've got 2 to 3 hours on my foggy fix and is running fine? I intend to run a couple more hours tomorrow. I'll let you know. deereguy

That is VERRY encouraging Deerguy! Thanks for the feedback.

I know my saw is running retarded but that has nothing to do with the "fix". I had a heck of the time pulling the starter rope, even pulled the rope off of a brand new handle that was attached to it. I wanted to be sure that a possible advanced timing set was not causing the hard starting problem so I deliberately retarded the spark as far as the ignition would allow.

And sure, the saw seemed to run fine not having another to compare it to. This is why I posed the question pertaining to blowing the muffler off if it could be caused by the engine being retarded. I am going to put it all back together next week with the timing set in the middle of the adjustment range. I know I am guessing with the timing, it is a BPITA to properly time one of these things with a timing light because all adjustments require pulling off the flywheel.

Foggy
 
Foggy, don't buy any parts. I have over 20 parts units, probably closer to 30. Anyway, let me know what you need and I'll ship it to you. Free, of course, for the ignition master.
 
Foggy, don't buy any parts. I have over 20 parts units, probably closer to 30. Anyway, let me know what you need and I'll ship it to you. Free, of course, for the ignition master.


Thanks-- sending a PM
 
Been awhile, time for an update! I have another thread where I described needing two men and a young girl (yeah--- tell the truth, you thought I was going to type "young boy : -) " to pull the starter rope. So after I installed the ignition fix, I reset the timing to the maximum retardation to eliminate any possibility of a pri ignition caused by the saw being too far advanced.

After I reassembled the saw when it blew its chops, I reset the ignition timing to mid range. Yes, yes yes! I know that I should have spun the crank with a drill or by some other means and put my timing light on the plug to check set the timing. Only 3 words I can think of to describe why I didn't. I WAS LAZY!

OK, I did get the saw running! And maybe the timing is not set for optimum performance. But the saw runs well!! No more back firing through the carburetor nor blowing the cookies off the muffler. I believe the reason for this post need not have happened if I had either left the timing as it was originally set or gone through a retiming process.

So the message is---- DO NOT TRY RUNNING A TWO CYCLE ENGINE GREATLY RETARDED!
 
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