Natural Crotch Rope...What Do You Prefer
- Thread starter YUKON 659
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Especially on removals. If this is easier for you, do it. Pruning is a different matter.
Kneejerk Bombas
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Boy, all I did was mention that I don't often N/C rig and I get reamed out, and insulted because I'm not an english major.
Did I hit a cord here?
You want great writing, you won't find find it here, not from me, nor 95% of the posters here, incuding you Tex. I don't think that's what this site is about anyway.
As far as me being right, hardly, but I can give an opinion. Brian, you are the most subborn induvidual whose writiing I have ever read. Talk about a closed mind! If I have an opinion that doesn't mach yours, then I'm an idiot.
Did I hit a cord here?
You want great writing, you won't find find it here, not from me, nor 95% of the posters here, incuding you Tex. I don't think that's what this site is about anyway.
As far as me being right, hardly, but I can give an opinion. Brian, you are the most subborn induvidual whose writiing I have ever read. Talk about a closed mind! If I have an opinion that doesn't mach yours, then I'm an idiot.
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
Light rigging with a retired climbing line, sometimes the tail of my current climbing line. Too bad Ox is boycotting the site, he does it too, and would love being lumped in with the hacks.
I natural crotch if that crotch is conveniant, If a pully will give a better abngle or I want to rig with low friction I will set a carbiner of pulley.
Yes Ken, when rigging a removal I will set a primary block and several other pullies. Some I will move around with me so that I can get an optimal line of force or proper swing. Maybe I should say so I can get the load to do what I want it to do better. Remember, I want as little friction outside of the bollard as possible. When winching that friction gets in the way fast. I will also set carabiners an clevises in palces to get the rigging line to fair throught the tree properly. Minimal rubbing please.
My primary rigging rope is 1/2 inch double braid. I may be getting some of the new hard weave DBrais that NER is coming out with. I understand that the flattening on the drum is what causes most of the melting in ehavy rigs.
I natural crotch if that crotch is conveniant, If a pully will give a better abngle or I want to rig with low friction I will set a carbiner of pulley.
Yes Ken, when rigging a removal I will set a primary block and several other pullies. Some I will move around with me so that I can get an optimal line of force or proper swing. Maybe I should say so I can get the load to do what I want it to do better. Remember, I want as little friction outside of the bollard as possible. When winching that friction gets in the way fast. I will also set carabiners an clevises in palces to get the rigging line to fair throught the tree properly. Minimal rubbing please.
My primary rigging rope is 1/2 inch double braid. I may be getting some of the new hard weave DBrais that NER is coming out with. I understand that the flattening on the drum is what causes most of the melting in ehavy rigs.
Tim Gardner
ArboristSite Guru
I do not think anyone on this site is an idiot. I have learned at least one thing from all the regulars here. Thanks guys.
Mike I was not jumping on you or Tom. If it sounded that way I apologize. I value both of you guys opinions.
Tom, thank you for the ring on ring FS for rigging tip. I never thought about that. Aluminum or steel?
Mike I was not jumping on you or Tom. If it sounded that way I apologize. I value both of you guys opinions.
Tom, thank you for the ring on ring FS for rigging tip. I never thought about that. Aluminum or steel?
YUKON 659
ArboristSite Guru
Guys, thanks for your input...after the first few replies from Mike and Tom...I thought I was the only IDIOT that would consider using a natural crotch.
Jeff
Jeff
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
Soemtimes I like to lace it around several branches so that I can self rig a sizeable piece down without burning my gloves
Kneejerk Bombas
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Which rope.
If you are going to do a lot of natural crotch rigging, I guess the double braid would be the best choice.
A 3, 12 or 16 strand rope is braided such that every strand comes to the surface. So if you burn only a couple feet, you have burned every single strand.
A kernmantle rope, like a mountain climbers rope with a thin sheath, would not have that problem, but the cover would wear through quickly and snag up.
A double braid would loose some of it's strenth if the cover were burned, but much of the strength is in the core anyway. So that's my vote.
Personally I find it harder to set up and remove a Natural Crotch system. I also find it more difficult to use. There is some concern about wearing the rope and hurting the tree, but mostly it is slower and more difficult than setting a FC, both for the climber and the groundy.
If you have a different experience that does not make you an idiot, just different.
I gotta go have some toast.
If you are going to do a lot of natural crotch rigging, I guess the double braid would be the best choice.
A 3, 12 or 16 strand rope is braided such that every strand comes to the surface. So if you burn only a couple feet, you have burned every single strand.
A kernmantle rope, like a mountain climbers rope with a thin sheath, would not have that problem, but the cover would wear through quickly and snag up.
A double braid would loose some of it's strenth if the cover were burned, but much of the strength is in the core anyway. So that's my vote.
Personally I find it harder to set up and remove a Natural Crotch system. I also find it more difficult to use. There is some concern about wearing the rope and hurting the tree, but mostly it is slower and more difficult than setting a FC, both for the climber and the groundy.
If you have a different experience that does not make you an idiot, just different.
I gotta go have some toast.
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
I feel like toast right now.
i have some lines for years, and some as a wearable resource, downgraded lifeline. i think that natural crotch rigging has some good points, sometimes going for high friction.
Lower support loads, minimizing amount of line that needs to be extreme pretightening (leaving less dynamic line to absorb dynamic loads in trade), and subsequentially self tighten immediately upon movement, to bind the load against itself immediatelyt gradually handing off to rigging and force mechanics into first class lever status before tearoff, with a balanced load and float out.
Tradeoffs being wear to matinig surfaces of line and limb that give this control.
Only lighter stuff in thin barked trims if supporting branching is not coming out as part of process, slow lowering. Someitmes this means pulley closeby and line coming back to limb for high angle support and friction on limb that is coming out. As the weight comes off, it is added back on, at a lower leveraged position.
:alien:
Lower support loads, minimizing amount of line that needs to be extreme pretightening (leaving less dynamic line to absorb dynamic loads in trade), and subsequentially self tighten immediately upon movement, to bind the load against itself immediatelyt gradually handing off to rigging and force mechanics into first class lever status before tearoff, with a balanced load and float out.
Tradeoffs being wear to matinig surfaces of line and limb that give this control.
Only lighter stuff in thin barked trims if supporting branching is not coming out as part of process, slow lowering. Someitmes this means pulley closeby and line coming back to limb for high angle support and friction on limb that is coming out. As the weight comes off, it is added back on, at a lower leveraged position.
:alien:
Tom Dunlap
Addicted to ArboristSite
Whew! Go to work for a day and all H*ll flies 
Natural crotch rigging has its place, I'll grant you that. I just don't have a place for it on my crew. Above exceptions noted though.
Being able to control friction at the ground is my main impetus to do FC rigging.
I use the aluminum Ring on ring FC with no noticeable wear. But then, I generally only use that on smaller limb wood.
Rarely do I ever rig through double crotches or redirects. If I did, I might use a sling and biner or pulley depending on the size of the limb and the angles that I want to turn.
Tom
Natural crotch rigging has its place, I'll grant you that. I just don't have a place for it on my crew. Above exceptions noted though.
Being able to control friction at the ground is my main impetus to do FC rigging.
I use the aluminum Ring on ring FC with no noticeable wear. But then, I generally only use that on smaller limb wood.
Rarely do I ever rig through double crotches or redirects. If I did, I might use a sling and biner or pulley depending on the size of the limb and the angles that I want to turn.
Tom
kf_tree
Addicted to ArboristSite
this i'm surprised at.....there has been a few times where i've ripped crotch's out. thing could have gotten ugly if i did not have my lowering line double crotched.
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I think everyone is on the same page here but are having a hard time communicating it.
Sorry if I forced anyone to spend the night crying themselves to sleep.
I really don't care about spelling or the butchering of the english language on this site. I was just trying to point out that if you are trying to paralell relationships, make sure they make sense. Otherwise, your point is lost. For example, I am off to have some Jelly Toast.
I remember pics of OX creating some natural crotch rigging.
Have a nice day!!!
Sorry if I forced anyone to spend the night crying themselves to sleep.
I really don't care about spelling or the butchering of the english language on this site. I was just trying to point out that if you are trying to paralell relationships, make sure they make sense. Otherwise, your point is lost. For example, I am off to have some Jelly Toast.
I remember pics of OX creating some natural crotch rigging.
Have a nice day!!!
Tom Dunlap
Addicted to ArboristSite
KF,
We're talking about two different approaches. YOurs seems to work, until you tear out your rigging point. That sounds like a situation that would have been solved another way. Good thing to have used the Fishing Pole method.
Setting up the FOS, http://www.verticalpro.net/ , only takes a couple of minutes.
By using FC and friction devices, the groundie doesn't have to judge how much friction to have in hand. When in doubt, add another turn of rope. In time, they can learn better how much friction to have by judging the branch and rigging angles. When using natural crotches, the fricion is so variable the learning curve is long and steep. Using rope tools gets even rookie groundies up to speed quicker. I've had homeowners ground for me before and they do just fine. I would never consider using a rookie or novice to do natural crotch and tree wrap rigging.
What's time to a turtle?
Tom
We're talking about two different approaches. YOurs seems to work, until you tear out your rigging point. That sounds like a situation that would have been solved another way. Good thing to have used the Fishing Pole method.
Setting up the FOS, http://www.verticalpro.net/ , only takes a couple of minutes.
By using FC and friction devices, the groundie doesn't have to judge how much friction to have in hand. When in doubt, add another turn of rope. In time, they can learn better how much friction to have by judging the branch and rigging angles. When using natural crotches, the fricion is so variable the learning curve is long and steep. Using rope tools gets even rookie groundies up to speed quicker. I've had homeowners ground for me before and they do just fine. I would never consider using a rookie or novice to do natural crotch and tree wrap rigging.
What's time to a turtle?
Tom
