Need 3" BearCat chipper advice

[Roger Dodger]

Roger, it's an acre and a half.4 guys, a t650 with a grapple bucket, two cutters, and a bc 1500, done by noon. I've been doing this for twenty years.

I hear ya JL, and I don't doubt for one second that you are 100% right.

My issue is, I don't have "4-guys, a t650 with a grapple-bucket, two cutters, and a bc 1500". Heck, I can't even get a return phone-call from the owners' cousin, to see if he'll come with his 4x4 to tow a 3" chipper out of there when it's done. There's always plenty of "available helpers" until it's time for them to actually show up. Bottom line; I betcha I'll be doing this alone.

A little "history"; the original land-owner (now deceased), had made a deal with a guy to get that land cleared a few years ago. He gave the guy a tractor and a chipper, on the condition that this guy comes back and clears the land. This guy is a cop by the way, and,,,, he never came back.

 

[Roger Dodger]

Well, it's a done deal. I signed the papers today for the Wallenstein BXMT 3213 chipper/shredder. I agonized for a few days over buying the 4" machine(38 HP BXMT4238), but given the fact that winters' just about here, I didn't want that machine sitting idle 'til next May. The 3213 will give me the access I need for this job, and this will give me a few months to think about whether I'll add a larger machine next Spring.

http://www.embmfg.com/forestry/chipper_shredder/BXMT-Models.aspx#bxmt3213

 

[Zale]

Jesus, are we still beating this dead horse? I'm glad you made a decision. Please don't post again until you're done. Be safe.

 

[tidy]

enjoy, wally

 

[Roger Dodger]

enjoy, wally

Unfortunately, Wally's been cancelled. (for now anyway). Turns out that the 2.5% lease rate, was supposedly "a mistake", and that 2.5% was the "Multiplier ratio"(?????). The actual interest rate for the lease was going to be 13.09%, so I said "thanks, but no thanks".

I've placed a call directly to Wallenstein, to find out what's going on, but I know it was not their mistake; the mistake occurred at the leasing company, and they've since apologized.

I'm working on an alternative plan, but time is quickly running out. (It snowed here today)

 

[BuckmasterStumpGrinding]

You can buy a nice trailer for what you would spend on that chipper. Put in some extra effort dragging the brush to the trailer and you will have a piece of equipment that you need to have.

 

[tidy]

Unfortunately, Wally's been cancelled.

My post was a play on words- I meant enjoy the chipping, ya Wally. The capacity of these machines is irrelevant, its the volume of material you plan to chip and feed manually that's the issue, better of just walking away IMO

 

[Roger Dodger]

My post was a play on words- I meant enjoy the chipping, ya Wally. The capacity of these machines is irrelevant, its the volume of material you plan to chip and feed manually that's the issue, better of just walking away IMO

You're preaching to the "converted". I'd kill to own a $20.k 6" hydraulically-fed chipper, but that's simply not going to happen. As I said earlier, this job may be a one-shot deal for me, and, my "boss" has already nixed the idea of a large chipper. Now I may have a way around that issue, but that's not been agreed to.(yet). I'm working on a solution.

As far as my "getting into the business" is concerned, the first thing I have to do is assess the local market. (the competition), and the level at which I'd want to enter that market. There are already plenty of 6" units available locally, either through rental, or via contractors. If I'm going to invest in a chipper, I need to find a specific "niche-market", and given my present resources (no truck, no tractor, no hitch on the car), I'm thinking that "maybe,,,just maybe" there's a local market for a high-quality, but residential-class chipper/shredder; a machine that one person can move around his property with relative ease. That would be a pure gamble at this point, but given the $4k. price-point, it's a gamble I can easily afford, and one that I wouldn't mind taking. Basically, I'd be targeting only the smaller jobs that the big guys don't want to do, or, I'd provide a rental machine to home-owners who just won't rent a 6" chipper.(there's nothing available for rental, under 6")

So, once this particular job that I'm working on is done, I could either keep the machine for local rental, or, for my own use, or, I could simply resell it while it's still fully guaranteed. The price I was quoted by my local dealer, is already $500. lower than the price I was quoted at the largest dealer around, so I wouldn't be losing much on a resale.

Last week, when I started a local-market research, I spoke to the marina-owner next door, he told me he rented a 6" chipper last year, and it was operating for 6 days straight. (8 men clearing a new parking area for the marina). That said, they only chipped material of 3" or less, and the rest was kept for fire-wood. The other neighbor also did a property clean-up, and they too chipped only the smaller stuff, and kept the 3+ inch material for fire-wood. I've yet to talk to any of the local landscapers/grounds-keepers, who do only mowing, and residential property clean-ups.(leaves,branches, etc).

Nothing is written in stone at this point,,, I've only started considering the possibilities, but my gut tells me "start small, and work your way up".

 

[Griff93]

There's a reason there are no chippers smaller than 6" for rent locally....

Do yourself a favor and save your money. Forward material up the to the road and go rent a 6" chipper. By the time your done, you'll be begging for one larger than that.

 

[Roger Dodger]

There's a reason there are no chippers smaller than 6" for rent locally....

Do yourself a favor and save your money. Forward material up the to the road and go rent a 6" chipper. By the time your done, you'll be begging for one larger than that.

I'm working on doing precisely that. If "the boss" accepts, I'll start hauling the wood out this week, and start stacking it next to where the 6" chipper would be parked.

Now, with that said, I'd be frikken amazed if there's not a niche-market for a smaller chipper like that 3" Wallenstein. I'd be willing to bet dollars-to-donuts that a market does exist, and that the machine would pay for itself in pretty short order. Two 1-day rentals per month would more than cover its' cost. The target market would be in-town residential properties, with fairly light Spring clean-ups, etc. (dead branches, shrubs, leaves, composting, mulching, etc) As it stands, these people can't rent anything smaller than a 6" chipper, because there's simply none available.

Today I spoke to another friend who has a 1 1/2 acre country property, and when I told him about this chipper, he said "put me down as your first customer". That's four possible jobs lined up, and I haven't even bought it yet.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Dang it Rodger, we are trying to help you. Do not pay $4,000.00 for that POS. Have you watched Fargo? If he had a decent sized chipper he lwould have gotten away with it.

 

[Roger Dodger]

Dang it Rodger, we are trying to help you. Do not pay $4,000.00 for that POS. Have you watched Fargo? If he had a decent sized chipper he lwould have gotten away with it.

Good one!!!

OK, let's get back to reality for a minute. I'm not arguing that a 3" gravity-fed chipper is "better" than a larger hydraulic-fed chipper,,,, that's a given. What I've been trying to do all along here, is to get an unbiased review of the various 3" g/fed chipper/shredders, and after considerable research, nothing seems to touch the Wallenstein BXMT 3213 unit. I don't think you can compare it to a 3" BearCat (and similar units), because it's an entirely different class of machine. The rotor weighs 3 times as much (70 lbs vs 25 lbs.), and the diameter of the rotor is 17.5" vs 12" (higher tip-speed). It has a 360 degree ejection chute, vs fixed side ejection, and it has a blower. It's mounted on a bonafide highway-towable trailer, and the 27-knife shredder handles 1" material (vs 3/4" or less).

The gravity-feed system actually seems to work on this machine, and that probably due to several factors; properly sized chute, proper chute angle, and much larger 6"x3" throat, vs 3x3 on the BearCat (and many others in this 3" class). The shredder appears to be particularly aggressive, and in any of the videos I've seen, it seems to vaporize anything you throw into it.

Pricewise, it generally retails for three times what the BearCat does, and I believe ChippersDirect.com is asking $5,395. U.S. for this unit. Here in Canada, where it's manufactured, it's typically $1k. less, and my local dealers' price is even better ($4,100. CDN, or $3,660 U.S.).

Now, I understand that an arborist has very different needs compared to a typical home-owner who's simply looking to cleanup his property once or twice a year(dead branches, leaves, etc). I'm just trying to determine if there's a viable market for this class of machine, and given the reaction of several potential customers that I've talked to, I firmly believe there is. If the machine pays for itself, what's the mystery? And, on those occasions where I'd need a 6" chipper, I'd simply rent one. Seems like a foregone conclusion at this point, and none of the rental places in my area, are serving this level of customer. A perfect niche-market, with zero competition.

 

[fearofpavement]

I have a 12" chuck and duck Altec "whisper chipper" and a smaller 3" TroyBilt chipper shredder. That said, for this job, I would figure out a way to burn it. Burning is faster than chipping and the option I use for getting rid of brush whenever it's an option. (we can only burn part of the year here)
It does not take a large fire to consume brush faster than you can bring it and toss it on. Just last week I had a brush fire going and myself and two teenage helpers were hauling brush and cut up pine logs and tossing them on and not gaining. I would think there would have to be a way to burn the brush without lighting the ground on fire. Even if it required making a platform out of cap blocks or something.
The Troybilt chipper is about 150 lbs but moving it on uneven terrain is not easy. Do not underestimate the amount of effort it will take to move a 400 lb machine once it's off pavement. Once you get this job completed, go back and read this thread. A lot of it will make sense to you then.

 

[tidy]

Hi Roger,

I did reply earlier the other day but the post didn't upload. Sure thing you may be able to operate in a little niche homeowner market but that doesn't mean you can try to chip those brush piles you speak of without any regrets. Its all about volume.

Chris

 

[blades]

Roger a 5 or 6" throat capacity means not having to trim branches down to bare sticks. Believe me that eats time faster than sitting in front of this here box. I played the game with smaller units, intake wise even my 5" bearcat is a bit small. Another thing there is no substitute for pure hp in this game even with a heavier disc. Leasing Companies are great at the bait and switch tactics regarding interest rates- Heck even the banks are bad on conventional loans. Always having some story why they are 4-8 times the prime rate or have such ridiculous up front fees combined with a lower rate comes out the same.

 

[Roger Dodger]

Roger a 5 or 6" throat capacity means not having to trim branches down to bare sticks. Believe me that eats time faster than sitting in front of this here box. I played the game with smaller units, intake wise even my 5" bearcat is a bit small. Another thing there is no substitute for pure hp in this game even with a heavier disc. Leasing Companies are great at the bait and switch tactics regarding interest rates- Heck even the banks are bad on conventional loans. Always having some story why they are 4-8 times the prime rate or have such ridiculous up front fees combined with a lower rate comes out the same.

Well, right now I'm "up the creek without a paddle",,,,, and it looks like we'll be waiting for Spring before we can deal with the brush. I can't find a hitch for my car. This is my fifth Acura RL(previously called Acura Legend) in a row, and I've never had problems getting one before, other than having to wait for a few weeks. (special order only). I've called all the local trailer-fabricator places, Canadian-Tire, Acura,,,, and nobody's making a hitch for that car, so now I'm looking for a truck, and I'm suffering from sticker-shock. What the heck has happened to the used pick-up truck market???? A few years back, you couldn't give away a pick-up truck, and now, the prices are sky-high.

Regarding "interest rates", my bank treats me pretty good. I set up a personal line of credit a few years back, and the current variable-rate is 7.4%, with no other fees of any kind. I can access cash whenever I need it, and structure payments any way I like, and I never have to go to the bank to apply for a loan. Very convenient. Also, home-equity loans are dirt cheap. (mortgage rate(2.9%) +1%).

Regarding 3"x6" throat-size on that Wallenstein BXMT 3213,,, since that machine is a chipper-shredder,,, as soon as the tree trunk stops self-feeding in the chipping chute, you simply lift the top of the tree and throw it in the shredder, and it's vaporized.

Another thing about these "mostly less than 2" Sumacs" that I'm doing, is that as soon as you cut them down, the branches start to go completely limp. The branches are green and very soft,,,, more like a grass than a woody branch. A quick flick of the wrist, and they snap off the trunk.

Regarding trucks, I'm currently looking for a 4x4 Toyota Tundra or Tacoma, but I'm only kicking that idea around at this stage. I've found a fully-loaded 2011 6 cyl. Tacoma crew-cab TRD with only 20k miles on it. Nice truck, but I'd have a hard time parting with my car.

 

[Roger Dodger]

Hi Roger,

I did reply earlier the other day but the post didn't upload. Sure thing you may be able to operate in a little niche homeowner market but that doesn't mean you can try to chip those brush piles you speak of without any regrets. Its all about volume.

Chris

Yes, I understand that. The good thing about this particular job is, there's no rush. This is not like having a regular job to do, where you get in and get out as quickly as possible, and move on to the next client. Basically, I'm the grounds-keeper for this one property, and I don't do any other jobs for anyone else. I go there and mow the lawn every ten days or so, and do the brush clearing bit by bit. There's no rush whatsoever. The only goal with this particular property, is to keep the yard well maintained, so it appears lived-in. The house has been empty for the last 4 months.

I've been retired for a number of years, and I'm doing this job as a favor for the family, some of whom I've known for 60 years.

 

[blades]

Truck prices started climbing back in the late 90's add in the state side cash for clunkers program and about 1/2 of the used market was trashed out.
My 99's were not too bad yet, the 06 hurt and its just insane as far as a new truck is going for now, and there in lies the problem for the used market. Anything you get a hankering for in the used market get your bank to give you the loan value- they will bitch but be persistent. What you generally find is dealers asking double the loan value. Forget about Kelly blue book, I don't know who pays for that but it is way off base. I am not a fan of the Blundra ( intentional miss-spelling) and I am not getting into the lip wars on the others. Nothing out there is immune from the global epidemic of make as "cheap as possible for max profit- hang the consumer" rationalization.
I been using ford trucks since the 60's. Ya, I slipped off the bar stool once for about 2 years, that ain't going to happen again.

 

[Roger Dodger]

Truck prices started climbing back in the late 90's add in the state side cash for clunkers program and about 1/2 of the used market was trashed out.
My 99's were not too bad yet, the 06 hurt and its just insane as far as a new truck is going for now, and there in lies the problem for the used market. Anything you get a hankering for in the used market get your bank to give you the loan value- they will ***** but be persistent. What you generally find is dealers asking double the loan value. Forget about Kelly blue book, I don't know who pays for that but it is way off base. I am not a fan of the Blundra ( intentional miss-spelling) and I am not getting into the lip wars on the others. Nothing out there is immune from the global epidemic of make as "cheap as possible for max profit- hang the consumer" rationalization.
I been using ford trucks since the 60's. Ya, I slipped off the bar stool once for about 2 years, that ain't going to happen again.

One of the things that surprised about the "used" truck market, was the high prices of models which had historically fetched low re-sale prices. When I look at the small independent dealers, they're asking sky-high prices for trucks that have very high mileage,,, need tires,,, high-rate financing, etc. When I look for private sales, I find they're almost non-existent in my area. I guess a lot of folks must lease, then return those vehicles to the dealers.

The only low-rate financing available here, is dealer financing. (Toyota, 0.9 new, or 2.99 used). At those rates, it's almost crazy not to buy new, because with new, you have no additional costs,,,,everything's new, no repairs, no worn out parts, and mostly everything's covered by warranty. For the first few years anyway, that relatively low monthly payment sounds pretty good, but I'd imagine that after a few years, you'd get pretty fed-up with those payments.

I'll keep looking, but I gotta tell ya, I was looking at a very attractive and fully loaded 2015 4x4 v-6 Tacoma double-cab today. and it's mighty tempting. I'm just not sure that I'd enjoy switching from a car to a truck.

 

[greg storms]

By now, the pile has rotted! Happy new year!