Need help I’m stumped 031av flooding issue.

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No Need apologize, it is hard to diagnose " over the phone" so to speak. Also hard to know what the exact condition of the SAW, and other components that affect the carb, and vice versa. I've never had or worked on an 031, but I do have some older saws like the 051 and 075. stihltech and others may correct me, but it is entirely possible something other than the carbs is wrong. Also, since you say that you tested both of your carbs and they are assembled, adjusted, pressure tested etc, and yet the saw still floods with both. Either something is wrong with both carbs, or something else is wrong within the saw that is causing or allowing the fuel metering parts within the carb to draw in too much fuel in the times it is supposed to seal or limit the amount of fuel.

I will ask stihltech to hopefully explain this better than I can. I am going by what my 051 shop manual says regarding carb/ fuel delivery, and doing my best to summarize a rather wordy section about how the fuel delivery functions when everything is 100%.

The fuel system section starts by saying that the fuel pump section of the carb functions by pressure in the crank case. This pressure varies with each up and down stroke of the saw's piston. The long and short of it is the diaphragm/ fuel pump parts go up and down inside the carb, they draw in fuel and they close off fuel depending on the pressures. As this is happening, these valves allow fuel to flow to the needle valve. As the operation of the carb is cont. in the section, it mentions how the metering diaphragm is in position of rest when the atmospheric pressure and diaphragm pressures are equal ( the chamber in front of the diaphragm is connected to atmosphere)

As I understand things, much like a float is adjusted in a lawn mower carb, the proper height of the lever that raises and lowers the inlet needle needs to be set right otherwise the fuel will either be too much and could continue to flow too much ( like it on choke when it is supposed to be off choke) or too little fuel. Forgive me if I spoke wrong there. I am trying to not type out the whole fuel section of the shop manual.

I will post this though. It says there are 4 basic operating conditions of the function of the carb

1, Choke valve is closed, and the throttle valve is partly open during the starting process. A powerful vacuum is created in the choke tube during the induction stroke because the entry of outside air is almost completely restricted by the closed choke valve. This means that the engine draws in a large amount of fuel through the jets and relatively little air. A rich starting mixture is obtained in this way. The choke valve must be opened as soon as the engine fires--- the mixture would otherwise be too rich and stall the engine.
That’s interesting and good to know. So I took a lot of advice from y’all. So like one of y’all said maby it was badly flooded so I took off the carb and put a drill to it and ran it for some time while tilting the saw forward and gas started to come out of the muffler. That’s what I did and another thing I remember was when I used to work in a small engine shop I
No Need apologize, it is hard to diagnose " over the phone" so to speak. Also hard to know what the exact condition of the SAW, and other components that affect the carb, and vice versa. I've never had or worked on an 031, but I do have some older saws like the 051 and 075. stihltech and others may correct me, but it is entirely possible something other than the carbs is wrong. Also, since you say that you tested both of your carbs and they are assembled, adjusted, pressure tested etc, and yet the saw still floods with both. Either something is wrong with both carbs, or something else is wrong within the saw that is causing or allowing the fuel metering parts within the carb to draw in too much fuel in the times it is supposed to seal or limit the amount of fuel.

I will ask stihltech to hopefully explain this better than I can. I am going by what my 051 shop manual says regarding carb/ fuel delivery, and doing my best to summarize a rather wordy section about how the fuel delivery functions when everything is 100%.

The fuel system section starts by saying that the fuel pump section of the carb functions by pressure in the crank case. This pressure varies with each up and down stroke of the saw's piston. The long and short of it is the diaphragm/ fuel pump parts go up and down inside the carb, they draw in fuel and they close off fuel depending on the pressures. As this is happening, these valves allow fuel to flow to the needle valve. As the operation of the carb is cont. in the section, it mentions how the metering diaphragm is in position of rest when the atmospheric pressure and diaphragm pressures are equal ( the chamber in front of the diaphragm is connected to atmosphere)

As I understand things, much like a float is adjusted in a lawn mower carb, the proper height of the lever that raises and lowers the inlet needle needs to be set right otherwise the fuel will either be too much and could continue to flow too much ( like it on choke when it is supposed to be off choke) or too little fuel. Forgive me if I spoke wrong there. I am trying to not type out the whole fuel section of the shop manual.

I will post this though. It says there are 4 basic operating conditions of the function of the carb

1, Choke valve is closed, and the throttle valve is partly open during the starting process. A powerful vacuum is created in the choke tube during the induction stroke because the entry of outside air is almost completely restricted by the closed choke valve. This means that the engine draws in a large amount of fuel through the jets and relatively little air. A rich starting mixture is obtained in this way. The choke valve must be opened as soon as the engine fires--- the mixture would otherwise be too rich and stall the engine.
That’s good to know thanks boss, but I did take a lot of y’all’s advice and tried everything you guys told me to do and then like one of you guys said maby it’s badly flooded so I took the carb off and spark plug and put a drill to it while tilting it downwards and ran it for a little while. Gas was coming out of the muffler. Took the carb apart for the 100th time to check the lever and make sure everything is sealing and working properly. It started and ran for like 20 seconds then died and I can’t get it to start now. Haha
 
That’s interesting and good to know. So I took a lot of advice from y’all. So like one of y’all said maby it was badly flooded so I took off the carb and put a drill to it and ran it for some time while tilting the saw forward and gas started to come out of the muffler. That’s what I did and another thing I remember was when I used to work in a small engine shop I

That’s good to know thanks boss, but I did take a lot of y’all’s advice and tried everything you guys told me to do and then like one of you guys said maby it’s badly flooded so I took the carb off and spark plug and put a drill to it while tilting it downwards and ran it for a little while. Gas was coming out of the muffler. Took the carb apart for the 100th time to check the lever and make sure everything is sealing and working properly. It started and ran for like 20 seconds then died and I can’t get it to start now. Haha
I’ll try tomorrow again.
 
If I remember right, timing 2.1 mm before TDC. I think I still have the gauge for the sparkplug hole. There may also be a mark on the flywheel and the case to line up. Pitted points and bad condensers do odd things to spark.
So, is the carb flooding or do we have a spark issue?
Shut the high and low needles down and see if it starts and/or the plug still gets wet.
Electronic conversion? Did many in the past. Does take the points and condenser out of the equation.
Hey boss I did notice there was some lines and stuff on the inside of the flywheel, how does it go back on because I know I didn’t even notice it. Thanks.
 
If I remember right, timing 2.1 mm before TDC. I think I still have the gauge for the sparkplug hole. There may also be a mark on the flywheel and the case to line up. Pitted points and bad condensers do odd things to spark.
So, is the carb flooding or do we have a spark issue?
Shut the high and low needles down and see if it starts and/or the plug still gets wet.
Electronic conversion? Did many in the past. Does take the points and condenser out of the equation.
I also notice that where the crankshaft goes into the flywheel, behind the flywheel is not a perfect circle it’s like warped.
 
If I remember right, timing 2.1 mm before TDC. I think I still have the gauge for the sparkplug hole. There may also be a mark on the flywheel and the case to line up. Pitted points and bad condensers do odd things to spark.
So, is the carb flooding or do we have a spark issue?
Shut the high and low needles down and see if it starts and/or the plug still gets wet.
Electronic conversion? Did many in the past. Does take the points and condenser out of the equation.
I cannot find this exact flywheel anywhere.
 

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Take the plug out and crank it a lot of times, right side up and upside down as stated above. Take the plug out, empty the fuel tank, get the piston to the top, wire the throttle open and set the saw with the bar straight up so any fuel can run back out the inlet throat.
After a few days, return the saw to the upright position. DO NOT add fuel. Try to start. it may or may not. This will assure it is unflooded.
Sounds like a lot, but it sounds lie a lot of flooding.
Add fuel and try to start about 4 pulls. Check spark with an inline spark tester. See if the plug is still wet.
If it is and there is spark, you still have a carburetor issue.
Maybe it is working on these saws in the 80s, (and 90s and 2000s, They are like 028s, there is always one still running somewhere!) but something tells me it ain't just fuel.
 
Take the plug out and crank it a lot of times, right side up and upside down as stated above. Take the plug out, empty the fuel tank, get the piston to the top, wire the throttle open and set the saw with the bar straight up so any fuel can run back out the inlet throat.
After a few days, return the saw to the upright position. DO NOT add fuel. Try to start. it may or may not. This will assure it is unflooded.
Sounds like a lot, but it sounds lie a lot of flooding.
Add fuel and try to start about 4 pulls. Check spark with an inline spark tester. See if the plug is still wet.
If it is and there is spark, you still have a carburetor issue.
Maybe it is working on these saws in the 80s, (and 90s and 2000s, They are like 028s, there is always one still running somewhere!) but something tells me it ain't just fuel.
I will try that, but yesterday I didn’t put the starter cover on good and I stripped the pawls but I can’t find the pawls anywhere. So I would need a whole flywheel to get the pawls. I found some on eBay with the same part numbers but it isn’t the exact same. Will the same part number be the same even though it’s different ?
 
The lines you are looking for are one on top of the flywheel and one on the case that can be seen with the flywheel on.
stihltech, thanks for your patience to hang in there for rapozokurt, Not saying this about you, or rapo, but so many runnability threads go so far, then the OP leaves us hanging on if they ever got the saw running right or the diagnosis.

I am here to learn, and do my best to help others fix their stuff. Cutting my teeth on a brand new at the time 1994, my first saw was an 026. When it began to give me troubles was 20 some years later from it basically becoming an occasional use machine. I was 100% green on diagnosing anything small engine and 2 stroke, despite running push mowers all my life, and a saw owner from age 30 till maybe 45/50 before my saw acted up. All that changed when I found youtube and the web to learn HOW a saw runs, and why they don't when something is wrong.

Much like car repairs, Start simple, use eyes, ears, nose, etc to look for obvious issues. Then use tools such as spark tester, compression testers, Vac and Pressure tester, and of course GOOD SERVICE MANUALS.

As with all Internal Combustion engines, Fuel, Fire and Compression must all be there. In saws, it is vital to have properly sealed parts, and parts that breathe when they are supposed to too. Here is where I learned my most valuable lesson about Saws, Weed Wackers, etc that are basically air pumps that run on gas and fire. If the air part of pump leaks air, it will run lean and it if not repaired, it WILL damage the vital parts that pump and compress air and fuel and give the saw it's power. ( Scored Pistons and Cylinders) Also, as I learned, if the pump is not properly sealed, it will cause issues with the fuel pump system and cause starting and running issues related to the carb/choke/carb H and L adjustments and overall running due to improper fuel delivery. In addition, little things are overlooked or not known to the casual user or even pro, things that Pro Service Techs deal with all the time. Fuel Caps, Fuel Lines, Air and Fuel filters. It wasn't until I saw a video that demonstrated how to test something as simple as the in tank fuel filter, that I saw an explanation of why it is important to have a known " GOOD" filter in the system. Oftentimes, folks don't realize that moisture being present in the fuel or fuel system can cause a degradation of fuel delivery performance from the tank to the carb and in turn cause poor running.

I guess my point here is, not only for the OP and his current flooding issue, but for ANYONE. To learn why our saws work is key to keeping them working right and for a long time. To learn HOW to TEST for and repair a sick saw to a properly running saw is also a key to keeping them running well.

Of the things I loved and always wanted to learn as a kid, repairing mechanical things and electronics, it was never too late to begin to learn these things. I am proud to say that over the past 10 years I have digested and learned the basics of both Tube Amps, HVAC mother board, combustion controls, Car electronics and over the past decade Saws and Weed Wackers. I thank guys like stihltech, pogointhewoods, pioneerguy who make the old tech, resources and also their experiences free and kindly shared to those of us who do not do it for a living but are saw fans/ users who just want to keep our stuff going or fix that that was not so lucky to be well maintained in short or long life spans of use.
 
Something odd going on. If the saw will run for 20 seconds, which is a long time if you count it out, and then floods itself out ???? With different carbs ???

Trying to read back through all of this, but are you sure the saw has enough compression ?
This was my point a few posts of mine ago.

There is a cause that we have possibly touched upon, user error, air leak somewhere, buggered up tip on the inlet metering valve causing loss of seal and possible flooding.

Pg 71 in my 051, 075, 076 manual,

Correct operation of the carb depends on fuel tank and atmospheric pressures always being equal. This is assured by the tank vent in the fuel filler cap. In the event of difficulties with the carb or fuel supply system, always check and clean the tank vent.

A check can be carried out with carb and crank tester. To do this, disassemble the fan housing. Pull the fuel line off the carb. Reconnect one end of the fuel line to the elbow connector on the tank housing and push the other end into the tester's tube. Now close the vent screw on the rubber bulb and pump air into fuel tank until the gauge indicates .3-.4 bar. If the tank vent is in order, the pressure will drop immediately to 0

Page 64

Carb Floods engine stalls,

Cause

1. Inlet Valve not seating.
Foreign matter in valve seat or seat damaged

2. Helical spring not properly located on dimple
of inlet control lever

3.Perforated disc on diaphragm is deformed and
presses constantly against inlet control lever


4. Inlet control lever too high relative to design
position


Remedy

1. Remove and clean or renew inlet needle

2. Remove inlet control lever and refit correctly

3. Fit new metering diaphragm

4. Set inlet control lever flush with top edge of plate
 
Correct operation of the carb depends on fuel tank and atmospheric pressures always being equal. This is assured by the tank vent in the fuel filler cap. In the event of difficulties with the carb or fuel supply system, always check and clean the tank vent.
Is this specific to the 031 saw? Most modern chainsaws have tank vents that only let air in, not out, and tank pressure is often very high, requiring the "pop off" pressure (pressure that will force the inlet valve to leak) to be set higher than highest tank pressure or flooding can occur.
 
Is this specific to the 031 saw? Most modern chainsaws have tank vents that only let air in, not out, and tank pressure is often very high, requiring the "pop off" pressure (pressure that will force the inlet valve to leak) to be set higher than highest tank pressure or flooding can occur.
Old2stroke, I was quoting the Stihl 051, 075, 076 manual. I was thinking that the 031 might be similar. I believe that the OP ought to hit up ray benson for the service manual link unless it is posted elsewhere already too. https://www.arboristsite.com/thread...rate-post-for-manuals-you-upload-link.357768/
 
Old2stroke, I was quoting the Stihl 051, 075, 076 manual. I was thinking that the 031 might be similar. I believe that the OP ought to hit up ray benson for the service manual link unless it is posted elsewhere already too. https://www.arboristsite.com/thread...rate-post-for-manuals-you-upload-link.357768/
They were all built about the same time so should be similar. That era they probably all used Stihl's old vent system which was a grub screw pushed into the end of a tube. Vented in both directions.
 
This video I have never seen, but it is the description of many of the " issues" I have attempted to relay in my previous posts. I have seen similar demo's of carb operation, but this one is pretty thorough for illustrating all the potential causes.

 

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