Needless removals

[begleytree]

Not on the same topic as the other thread. Well maybe kinda.

I got called today to look at some tree work for the local fed housing authority.

One bid pack is minor trimming of encroaching limbs but includes a georgeous 35"dbh pin oak removal because---------the manager parks under it and the birds poopey on her car !!!!

the other bid is another complex that is A: removing 70% of all trees on property (yes they are healthy) and B: uplift all remaining trees so that the bottom limbs are no lower than the 2 storey apt ridgelines.
All because new fencing and cameras are going in to stop (read: make no change to, have no affect upon whatsoever ) the drug dealing in the area. we're talking a total of 57 trees here
Oh well, but it will be hot living in those apts when thats done, course we (read: working folks) pay for the A/C so why should they care?
Time to sharpen the pencils!
-Ralph

 

[MasterBlaster]

Bird poop. Thats pretty stupid. I've put fake owls and rubber snakes on limbs over driveways, the people said it works real well. Maybe you can talk them into that, and get a trim outta it.

I bet the cameras have SOME type of effect. They just can't give up on it.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by MasterBlaster
fake owls and rubber snakes on limbs over driveways, the people said it works real well. Maybe you can talk them into that, and get a trim outta it.

Spoken like a true Advocatus pro Arborae!:angel:
"removing 70% of all trees on property All because new fencing and cameras are going in"

begley can you get in to see the person who wrote those specs and talk sense to them? I spent 12 yrs doing fed housing contracts; pruned to allow camera view all the time. I'd go into the cop house and see what clearance they needed and gave it to em. Simple stuff.

The fence? It can be built around or yes through trees; trunks make fine fenceposts. All it would take would be just a little flexibility by fed employees--don't laugh, some are capable of thinking new thoughts.

There is a bunch of research that shows less crime in treed neighborhoods--people get madder easier if they're burning hot. Search for work by Wolf and Kuo--they have taken millions of research money that should imo have gone to tree science and cranked out proof that shady places are safer.:angel:

Going to all this trouble to talk yourself out of removal work is a major pita. There is no guarantee of success. But knowing what you know, sharpening your wits instead of your pencil will get you better work. Yeah everyone's got to eat, but food bought with blood-sap-money will start tasting bitter if you know better, trust me on this.

 

[begleytree]

Guy
I don't come here to be belittled.
especially by you, have been reading your inconsistant posts for a while now.

something you left out:
trees have limbs ripped off, bark pulled off, knife marks ect.
yep, the tree will live, but I look at it like 'these people don't deserve the trees they have.
do you leave a dog with someone knowing that they kick it around everyday?

Like previously stated:
1. you win some/you loose some
2. All bids I have ever been asked to do were required to be turned in within a day or two. so no time to try to talk to spec writer (nor interest really)

PLEASE NOTE FOR FUTURE REFRENCE:
I don't come here to learn
I don't come here to teach
This place is a chipper fender I am sitting on while on break, shooting the crap with other treeguys about our days.
I've seen your other smartas5 posts on other threads about slobs eating. Be careful. If you really want to get your point across, you catch more flies with sugar, than vinegar.
I'm not your groundie, nor your kid. From some of your posts (the ones that reflect a large lack of knowledge) you seem to be either young and have a lot to learn, or old with big ego and small experience
I listen to neither
-Ralph

 

[Guy Meilleur]

OK, OK, I've been in your spot plenty before, and don't belittle it. When you only have a day you don't have time to look at options.
If you don't have the interest, that's something else again. Others at AS are here to do more than just shoot the crap; that gives this place its value.

Treeguys are often the rear end of planning and operations. No one likes holding that end of the stick. My hands still get brown and like you I hate it. I need to do something about it.

"trees have limbs ripped off, bark pulled off, knife marks ect.
yep, the tree will live, but I look at it like 'these people don't deserve the trees they have."

Yes, trees in the projects are more abused than elsewhere. To say that "these people" don't deserve to have trees around is nonsense--racism? elitism? A sorry alibi for not working for change, at best.

"you seem to be either young and have a lot to learn, or old with big ego and small experience
I listen to neither"

Way off; medium-large ego and much too much experience--I did mention 4 major fed contracts over 12 years, didn't I? I've avoided laying waste to the urban jungle by forcing a small voice into the planning process. You can listen instead to chainsaws and pithing and moaning crap if you want to. No offense meant.

 

[begleytree]

Guy
Sorry if I came on strong, something about your post, then refrences in other threads to another discussion we had made me to believe we had a problem.
No real offense meant, no slight intended.
I hate removals of healthy trees as much as the next guy, but I have to balance that dislike with other priorities, like keeping my company producing and employees working.
I would love to be able to refuse any or all work that I had a problem with. The real facts are that I can't. Maybe if I slimmed the company down....Nah.
I am working with the local city and other companies around town to take a different approach, but it will take time.
Just because I do the removals doesn't mean I particularly enjoy them, and that I'm not striving for change.

Not elitetism, not racism as these are mostly white project housing in the area. But if all they are going to do is damage the trees, why leave the trees there to suffer? It'd be akin to topping. Damage for damages sake because they are bored or whatever. This is why we, as society, remove children from abusive households. I'm not saying trees are people nor do they have the same rights, but parrallels can be drawn.
-Ralph

 

[MasterBlaster]

This is akin to a friend of mine who works for a vet. She loves animals, but every day she has to help give the 'pink shot' to euthanize some of them.

She HATES it, but she's not gonna quit her job over it.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by begleytree
I am working with the local city and other companies around town to take a different approach, but it will take time.

It's worth all the time and frustration required, glad to hear you're making the effort. If you want to talk about the progress on reaching for the better end of the stick, I got the time.

Ummm the "why leave em suffer", euthanization parallels, sure sometimes that applies, but overall I'm still trying to figure that one out....

 

[NYCHA FORESTER]

We have similar issues here at the NYC Housing Authority. In many cases we were able to get away with some really unsightly pruning vs removal. We also are starting to use Cambistat in those areas. In some cases removal is the only option. Public safety is the priority.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by NYCHA FORESTER
Public safety is the priority.

It is everywhere, but to some fools that means turn the place into a barren concentration camp. Re unsightly pruning, trees often can grow out a new form, can't they? tgr a good plan for big abused trees, glad to hear folks in nyc are budgeting for that.

Hey nycha, where'd you get the democracy/liberty quote from? Sounds radical, and right.

Did you know Keith Kriet?

 

[NYCHA FORESTER]

Your right about "good intentions" gone bad. I met one fellow who was mislead about the term "re-forestation". With that term he proposed removing all Housing Authority trees and starting from scratch.

NYC Housing Authority "Houses" approx 500k people on 2,600 acres over the 5 boroughs of NYC.

Another sad note 87% of the listed "head of the household" are women.


I stole that quote (Democracy) from somebody.......... I just can't remember where from. I guess to be proper I should have put - anonymous.

-hanging my head in shame now-