New help might have to go

[tree MDS]

I hired my old helper back after he screwed me over last year by not showing up, mostly because he can drive a truck and is semi trained. Anyway I also hire his buddy that he lives with, 2 fer one deal. Well this kids a real beuty let me tell you. Im stood straight up in my bucket 60' roping a dying ash tree that was at least 90', things are going real good and I'm actually in a real good mood, so I've got everything tip tyed and but tied and am ready to have him take a wrap on the but when I hear an exagerated "YAAAAWWNN", I'm like what the f#@# is that, so now I'm starting to scowl some-and he did it for a few more big cuts before he finally realized how pissed I was getting and shut up, very annoying. So we get through that, that was last friday, now monday and tuesday I got beaten up pretty good by my own "whoops, here we go again" underbids, I was gonna make up for it wednesday whit a money job before the rain thursday and today-no show, the other one finally got the car and showed up at 8:45, well at least he showed, we did some small stuff, now its gonna rain half sat and then at least monday and looks like most of the week so looks like I'll be here alot, man a chain is only as strong as its weakest link-I mean how hard is it? show up and wait for a branch to fall, and now the other vone is "finished with" his court cases after 2 more missed days next week What would you guys do?, I just cant seem to find anyone normal !! Dont they make men anymore?

 

[arbor pro]

Asking you what you pay these blokes is somewhat irrelevant because I realize the standard of living on the coast is higher than here in the midwest. I don't know what $ it takes on the coast to hire a good employee and keep him around. but, here in the midwest, you've got to pay better than McDonalds or the local manufacturing plant if you want good help. If you're paying about the same as these places, you can probably expect to get no more out of them than what McDonald's would...

Note - There is no intentional bashing of McDonalds or their employees here - just a reasonable comparison being made. Bear in mind, McDonald's isn't having their employees rope down huge tree sections, run saws and chippers, or drive trucks. They may have to run a broom or mop every now and then which is probably on the same level as a tree worker who does nothing but run a rake or broom but, if you're talking about anything else in the tree care industry, you're probably meaning more danger, more strenuous work = higher pay.

 

[tree MDS]

They're at 15 an hour to start, I think its not that.

 

[arbor pro]

$15 an hour will barely get you a decent ground guy here in the midwest where I know the standard of living is lower than out east. Are you sure the pay isn't the issue with getting and keeping good employees? Would raising your pay to $20 hour attract more responsible employees who might otherwise not apply for only $15/hr?

Just asking - I don't know everything about your situation but, I do know that money talks when it comes to finding good responsible people. It only makes sense that, if someone is very responsible and hardworking, then they're also probably the kind of person who can seek out and retain a $20/hr job. So, if you're only paying $15/hr, it stands to reason that you might be attracting the guys who are too irresponsible to find or keep a higher paying job.

I speak from experience. Working conditions are important but, money talks when it comes to finding good help.

A hiring tactic I have used and found to be effective in attracting better quality employees is offering a starting range between say, $15-25 depending on experience. If a guy has great credentials and seems really eager and responsible, I'll offer to bring him on at $15 for a three-week trial period. If he works out well, I'll offer him a huge pay increase - if not, I'll let him go or keep him at $15 and expect to get what I pay for.

I always tell new employees that, if they show up, work hard and show respect for me and my customers, I will reward them with pay raises BEFORE they have to ask for them. I get some guys who bust their butts and earn big pay raises and continue to work hard while others stay at the base salary range and eventually leave because they're simply not interested in having a 'real' long-term job with responsibilities.

Have you tried offering pay raise incentives to your current employees for trying harder and cleaning up their acts? Obviously, I would stress that, in order to pay more, they have to perform better. You have to earn more money in order to afford paying out more money. Once your employees understand that simple concept, they can decide for themselves if the extra effort is worth the extra pay and you can decide whether it's worth your time to continue dealing with lazy, irresponsible employees.

Again, money talks. No insult to you or the way you run your business but, I don't thing $15 an hour is exactly screeming "come work for me - this is a great career opportunity." I think it's probably saying something like, "here's a chance to get eligible for unemployment benefits again..."

 

[tree MDS]

I dont know arbor pro, maybe you're right, but then I know a guy that was running a crew and 75 footer doing line trimming and he was only getting 22 bucks an hour I think-with 25+ years expierience-and he truly is a master tree climber also, I used to work with him doing residential work, this guy I would trust to send out to my best account, so then these two, are still learning to run a saw, one just drags and rakes, I dont know maybe I'm off, but I hear and will consider all of your good input, thanks dude. Oh, I know the line groundies start at 15 an hour here, I think 18 is like beginning climber, I'll check it out. Maybe if these guys can show up and work, and if one of em were to get a CDL, then I could surely afford more, I'm really not cheap, but I cant give a raise, based on costing me days it has to be earned-I think if I gave these two more money they'd just get more F#@#$# up and show up less. But yeah, like you said-and I just told one of em the other day, "maybe I should just pay more and then I can hire people of a higher caliber", lol.

 

[Blakesmaster]

$15 an hour sounds like you're giving them plenty. I know cost of living is probably more up there than it is here but my old boss was only giving me $13 for groundie and beginner level climbing. I didn't think he was ripping me off, but I'm much happier now running my own gig.

 

[tree MDS]

$15 an hour sounds like you're giving them plenty. I know cost of living is probably more up there than it is here but my old boss was only giving me $13 for groundie and beginner level climbing. I didn't think he was ripping me off, but I'm much happier now running my own gig.

Thanks man, I thought I was having another bout of "oh my god, I'm turning into a fossil" again, lol. MDS.

 

[Treetom]

Perhaps you're setting yourself up to be "screwed over" again. Maybe a two-fer-one screw over. I sense that these guys don't respect you. I've often heard it said that "you get what you pay for." Sometimes we get what we settle for. I don't think it's an issue of money here. It's a issue of character: you've settled for a couple characters. Start fresh with a couple new employees. You came to this site to improve your company and your skills, correct me if I'm wrong. Tree MDS, you deserve a better caliber of employee.

 

[tree MDS]

Perhaps you're setting yourself up to be "screwed over" again. Maybe a two-fer-one screw over. I sense that these guys don't respect you. I've often heard it said that "you get what you pay for." Sometimes we get what we settle for. I don't think it's an issue of money here. It's a issue of character: you've settled for a couple characters. Start fresh with a couple new employees. You came to this site to improve your company and your skills, correct me if I'm wrong. Tree MDS, you deserve a better caliber of employee.

Thanks man, I agree, its just that you get despirate, I'm sure you know or have been there. I dont know if I'll actually start fresh, but at least I fully realize that I should thanks to you putting it so perfectly. Maybe I'll just fire the next one of em that screws me over, and just start with that.

 

[Treetom]

I've been in situations similar to yours with employees. My pet peave is when you're set up for a 2-day job and things are going smoothly. On the second day a crew member doesn't show up or you need a driver for the third truck and he's nowhere to be found. Or some similar scenario. You look bad to the client, you're overworking the rest of your crew and yourself, as well as losing money. I say "pet peave" like it's an ongoing thing, which it isn't, but such occurrences have made a strong enough impression on me that I have little tolerance for slackers. Sure, there are guys out there that do great for a short period of time, then comes pay day and the weekend. You know the rest. If your employee pool is anything like it is around here, it's gotta be rough. In these parts you may find a good climber or groundman, but one with a driver's license is a whole different story. A lot of guys call me looking for work. My first question is whether or not they have a driver's license. So far this year, none have. Good luck tree MDS.

 

[hornett224]

you're gonna have to pay more.

there are illegals getting $20 plus around Hartford and they are doing a lot easier work than ours and they can hardly speak english.

hell,they couldn't even cut a round hole in a piece of plywood!

 

[treemandan]

I hired my old helper back after he screwed me over last year by not showing up, mostly because he can drive a truck and is semi trained. Anyway I also hire his buddy that he lives with, 2 fer one deal. Well this kids a real beuty let me tell you. Im stood straight up in my bucket 60' roping a dying ash tree that was at least 90', things are going real good and I'm actually in a real good mood, so I've got everything tip tyed and but tied and am ready to have him take a wrap on the but when I hear an exagerated "YAAAAWWNN", I'm like what the f#@# is that, so now I'm starting to scowl some-and he did it for a few more big cuts before he finally realized how pissed I was getting and shut up, very annoying. So we get through that, that was last friday, now monday and tuesday I got beaten up pretty good by my own "whoops, here we go again" underbids, I was gonna make up for it wednesday whit a money job before the rain thursday and today-no show, the other one finally got the car and showed up at 8:45, well at least he showed, we did some small stuff, now its gonna rain half sat and then at least monday and looks like most of the week so looks like I'll be here alot, man a chain is only as strong as its weakest link-I mean how hard is it? show up and wait for a branch to fall, and now the other vone is "finished with" his court cases after 2 more missed days next week What would you guys do?, I just cant seem to find anyone normal !! Dont they make men anymore?

Finding people interested enough in making you money is tough, something I would never try. Based on your posts I've read you got squat for a crew and are an ####### regardless. This is only based on what you posted of course. Stop crying and do it yourself, I do.

 

[treemandan]

there are illegals getting $20 plus around Hartford and they are doing a lot easier work than ours and they can hardly speak english.

hell,they couldn't even cut a round hole in a piece of plywood!

Yeah, even the ileegalls are crying for more.

 

[Mikecutstrees]

I start my groundies with no experience at $13. After they show they can work and show up on time $14. After they learn a few knots, a few trees, use a chainsaw safely etc $15. I think it's fair. I have been having employee problems too, fired a guy a few weeks ago for a bad attitude, cutting his chaps twice and generally being unsafe and not listening. His replacement was there for one day, said it was great and he would be back the next day... no show no call. Had a climber for a few jobs till get this.... he said the red maple he was working on was possesed by evil spirts and couldn't bring himself to finish the tree. So I had to finish it. My current groundie is doing well, I took peoples advise on here and hired a guy who was hungry for work with family, mortgage etc, the only problem so far is the family part. He has missed 2 days in 3 weeks because his son was sick once and then his son needed stiches in his knee. But other than that which isn't a huge deal he has been doing very well. So yeah I think everyone has problems with employees.... Mike

 

[treemandan]

I start my groundies with no experience at $13. After they show they can work and show up on time $14. After they learn a few knots, a few trees, use a chainsaw safely etc $15. I think it's fair. I have been having employee problems too, fired a guy a few weeks ago for a bad attitude, cutting his chaps twice and generally being unsafe and not listening. His replacement was there for one day, said it was great and he would be back the next day... no show no call. Had a climber for a few jobs till get this.... he said the red maple he was working on was possesed by evil spirts and couldn't bring himself to finish the tree. So I had to finish it. My current groundie is doing well, I took peoples advise on here and hired a guy who was hungry for work with family, mortgage etc, the only problem so far is the family part. He has missed 2 days in 3 weeks because his son was sick once and then his son needed stiches in his knee. But other than that which isn't a huge deal he has been doing very well. So yeah I think everyone has problems with employees.... Mike

Wow! 30k a year! I would show up if my wife was bleeding to death. I know families are a problem, even more so when they inhibit you. Least it wasn't to hard on you.

 

[Mikecutstrees]

Iv'e had jobs that required a bachelors degree that only paid $15 and hour, minimum wage is like $7.25. I know tree work isn't for everyone but I think that a new worker in the business making 30K to start isn't ridiculous. As for illegals making $20 an hour who can't cut a round hole in a sheet of plywood, I could pay a monkey $100 an hour doesn't mean it makes sence. After I graduated from college I was making $8 an hour as a carpenters assistant carrying sheets of 3/4 ply upstairs all day. I survived on cheep beer and mashed potatoes so don't go telling me that someone can't survive on 30K a year to start. It's a job and with time people can make alot more you won't find that at McDonalds. But it's not for everyone. As for my guy not making it in I was just bummed that he wasn't there to help and that I had to climb and take down trees by myself. That sucked, but I wasn't mad. Just wanted to clarify..... Mike

 

[treemandan]

Iv'e had jobs that required a bachelors degree that only paid $15 and hour, minimum wage is like $7.25. I know tree work isn't for everyone but I think that a new worker in the business making 30K to start isn't ridiculous. As for illegals making $20 an hour who can't cut a round hole in a sheet of plywood, I could pay a monkey $100 an hour doesn't mean it makes sence. After I graduated from college I was making $8 an hour as a carpenters assistant carrying sheets of 3/4 ply upstairs all day. I survived on cheep beer and mashed potatoes so don't go telling me that someone can't survive on 30K a year to start. It's a job and with time people can make alot more you won't find that at McDonalds. But it's not for everyone. As for my guy not making it in I was just bummed that he wasn't there to help and that I had to climb and take down trees by myself. That sucked, but I wasn't mad. Just wanted to clarify..... Mike

A new worker making that would be well off. Sheetrock, Macdonalds and tree work are far from the same. Consider what the employee is thinking. I know it might be video games on his mind but for a week breaking his ass it might not be enough to keep him coming back.
30K will get you that cheap beer and all the potatoes you want and thats about it.

 

[reachtreeservi]

Ahh... The help problem.

No matter who or where you are in the tree industry, this is , or will be the bane of your existence.

I try to work as much by myself as possible, but I have 3 ground guys that I use depending on the job.

I pay my guys 100 for a half day on small jobs. 4 hours or less

20 an hour for 1 day jobs, And a good bit more for multi day jobs.

The guy I work with the most is 75 yrs. old. keeps the dropzone clear and unties rope. No problems, he just can't do too much more than that.

Another guy is 43, a hard worker and a great guy. But his B$%#& of a girlfriend calls him constantly on the job and generally does everything in her power to sabotage his work. Makes him late, he has to leave early, ... etc

The last guy is a good friend of mine, an expert with a saw, Strong as an ox
and more skilled at tree felling than me, but he's got to bring his Dog with him on every job. Unleashed.

TreeMDS, I feel your pain.
And I know what it's like to have to make do with what you've got.
No matter what you pay ( and I'm paying as much as I can ) they'll be problems.

I feel lucky just to have any help at all.

 

[medicnurse70]

Anyone in New York ?

Heck, pay me 22.50 in upstate new york for min of 40 hours and I am there. You guys pay as much as nurses make and nursing sucks for the most part. Trees are much more fun

 

[ropensaddle]

I used to have that problem but wolla I learned how to clone!
Nah had you going though I do 90% on my own and the
wife helps me with ropes anything requiring more I use temporary
service and let them cover the wc!