New help might have to go

[joesawer]

It is a crap shoot.
When I was managing a tree service, we expected to keep only 1 out of ten labors and 1 out of 100 climbers.

 

[tree MDS]

Finding people interested enough in making you money is tough, something I would never try. Based on your posts I've read you got squat for a crew and are an ####### regardless. This is only based on what you posted of course. Stop crying and do it yourself, I do.

Yeah, you and yer 50' rope, lol.

 

[ropensaddle]

What always pisses ya off is, when ya send a groundy for a saw
after climbing a tricky dead tree and can now fell the last 15 foot of the
spar, only to have him walk back talking on his cell phone with an empty
saw I have found a horse whip an effective tool for management issues:hmm3grin2orange:

 

[treemandan]

What always pisses ya off is, when ya send a groundy for a saw
after climbing a tricky dead tree and can now fell the last 15 foot of the
spar, only to have him walk back talking on his cell phone with an empty
saw I have found a horse whip an effective tool for management issues:hmm3grin2orange:

And I was told to stop being a prickhead when I got pissed in the same exact senrio. Strolling back with a empty saw, hot as hell, crane all day, 4 guys on the ground yawning, and one more limb so I can get down and get a drink of water.

 

[treemandan]

It is a crap shoot.
When I was managing a tree service, we expected to keep only 1 out of ten labors and 1 out of 100 climbers.

Truer words have yet to be spoken.

 

[ropensaddle]

And I was told to stop being a prickhead when I got pissed in the same exact senrio. Strolling back with a empty saw, hot as hell, crane all day, 4 guys on the ground yawning, and one more limb so I can get down and get a drink of water.

Yeah been there and they have to know, so I inform them they can't read
your mind but they can hear! I will burn those ears and if that does not get
results fire them or break out the whip It would help ya to have one good trusted man on the ground lining out the yawners!

 

[treemandan]

Yeah, you and yer 50' rope, lol.

You like that, don't you? Yeah well, so do I.

 

[tree MDS]

You like that, don't you? Yeah well, so do I.

Yeah, sinse you are critiquing my opperation, your's sounds a bit like "Polock Tree" to me there bud- and ya cant takedown big trees that require alot of roping by yerself, just not happening, and sinse thats about 90% of my work I, unfortunately need help there tough guy. And I'm a quarter polock so I can talk.

 

[treemandan]

Yeah, sinse you are critiquing my opperation, your's sounds a bit like "Polock Tree" to me there bud- and ya cant takedown big trees that require alot of roping by yerself, just not happening, and sinse thats about 90% of my work I, unfortunately need help there tough guy. And I'm a quarter polock so I can talk.

You are right, you need a few hands. Hire an extra to make up for the lack of attentiveness.
Not to many willing to show up everyday. Incentive? Good money and a job they can understand. Maybe you understand it, very well to, but you really need to explain it over and over again to your guys, if you can find a clean one.
Sounds like you are an owner/operator, which means its all YOU. You know what going on but they don't and they have their own agenda, most likely trying to get through the day.
Look around for a sub- climber maybe, it would put you on the ground where you would have more control. It might be a better situation, you could lose one man on the ground and still have a solid crew with a novice dragger. Its not good to be up there without good guys down there, you know that.
Guys who get rich in this business have done so with what you have and a huge resource of different nutjobs that come and go. Me? I just swing around a 100 foot tree on a 50 foot rope and thank God I know a lot of nutjobs. No really, I have plenty of rope, thanks for your concern.

 

[tree MDS]

there are illegals getting $20 plus around Hartford and they are doing a lot easier work than ours and they can hardly speak english.

hell,they couldn't even cut a round hole in a piece of plywood!

Hornett, just remember that 20 dollars an hour is 27 with workers comp @ 35%, plus another 10% for payroll taxes, thats 29 an hour per hour per illegal that cant even speak or cut a round hole- oh no wait you cant put an illegal on the books, oh well, lol. Anyway it would cost me 522 for two guys at 20 an hour for 9 hours (travel time and assuming everything went on time) day-thats before the other taxes and the yellow book and the yellow pages-and the bucket payments-and the ins. and any other multitudinous expenses that go along with this crap, newspaper adds, maintenance, saws,shop taxes, equipment taxes, you get it, gonna have to do better than pinchin and pullin on my saws n not showin up here n there to get that, lol. Latter, Hornett.

 

[treemandan]

Hornett, just remember that 20 dollars an hour is 27 with workers comp @ 35%, plus another 10% for payroll taxes, thats 29 an hour per hour per illegal that cant even speak or cut a round hole- oh no wait you cant put an illegal on the books, oh well, lol. Anyway it would cost me 522 for two guys at 20 an hour for 9 hours (travel time and assuming everything went on time) day-thats before the other taxes and the yellow book and the yellow pages-and the bucket payments-and the ins. and any other multitudinous expenses that go along with this crap, newspaper adds, maintenance, saws,shop taxes, equipment taxes, you get it, gonna have to do better than pinchin and pullin on my saws n not showin up here n there to get that, lol. Latter, Hornett.

When is the last time you had a decent climber?

 

[custom8726]

When is the last time you had a decent climber?

What is a decent climber worth per hr or per day according to you???

Back on topic, I think $15 dollers per hr is more then a fair starting pay for a groundsman that is limited to running a rake and dragging brush. I start inexperienced guys at $13 per hr and give them raises as they aquire the skills necessary to be good groundsman. I will pay guys $15 dollers an hour even if they lack the experience to run a saw or ropes ETC.. If they show a desire to learn and show up for work every day. There is plenty of room for my employees to make more money but they have to show me they are worth it. So to sum it up 13-20 dollers per hr is what ground guys make around here. And 18-25 dollers per hr for climbers. Thats working every day on the books with paid lunch and time and a half over 40. If you are just bringing guys in here and there and can not offer them a reliable 40+ hrs a week then you will have to pay them more so it is worth there while. But like the old saying goes Good help is hard to find.

 

[treemandan]

What is a decent climber worth per hr or per day according to you???

Back on topic, I think $15 dollers per hr is more then a fair starting pay for a groundsman that is limited to running a rake and dragging brush. I start inexperienced guys at $13 per hr and give them raises as they aquire the skills necessary to be good groundsman. I will pay guys $15 dollers an hour even if they lack the experience to run a saw or ropes ETC.. If they show a desire to learn and show up for work every day. There is plenty of room for my employees to make more money but they have to show me they are worth it. So to sum it up 13-20 dollers per hr is what ground guys make around here. And 18-25 dollers per hr for climbers. Thats working every day on the books with paid lunch and time and a half over 40. If you are just bringing guys in here and there and can not offer them a reliable 40+ hrs a week then you will have to pay them more so it is worth there while. But like the old saying goes Good help is hard to find.

What's a decent climber worth? How much you got?
I guess most subs ask for 300 per day, a hot shot like me is going to want more, is going to need more. As a general employee? You take what you can get. Last thing I want is to be an employee or to have one.
I guess the pay scale would not change a whole lot for a decent groundie, they deserve it to. I do it all.

 

[treemandan]

You know that question was for MDS to answer. Just wanted to know.

 

[custom8726]

What's a decent climber worth? How much you got?
I guess most subs ask for 300 per day, a hot shot like me is going to want more, is going to need more. As a general employee? You take what you can get. Last thing I want is to be an employee or to have one.
I guess the pay scale would not change a whole lot for a decent groundie, they deserve it to. I do it all.

Whatever works for you!! As far as the pay scale being the same for a groundsman I disagree. Granted a good groundsman is almost as essential as a good climber in many cirumstances a good climber should have started as a good groundsman there for more experienced even if they are in the begining stages of climbing, HENCE a higher pay scale starting off.

 

[custom8726]

You know that question was for MDS to answer. Just wanted to know.

Yes, I know who the question was directed at but out of my own curiousity after reading some of your other posts on here I was curious what your take on the situation would be. Unique as usual!!

 

[TomSawyer]

15 bucks for a starting groundie is a joke. We didn't start these businesses to make other people money. You have to ask yourself, how much have I spent on equipment, advertising, safety programs, maintenance, etc. When my guys screw up, I put them on the bench. 2-3 weeks go by without pay, and they show back up with a magically improved attitude. Here in Michigan, it's not like they are going to go to the GM plant and get $40 an hour for driving a forklift. Those days are gone, my friends. Wal Mart pays 7 bucks an hour, will never give you more than 30 hours a week, and treats people like trash.

Also, I like to hire older dudes, 40 and up. They aren't as fast or energetic, but they know what a steady paycheck is. Supply and demand, I guess. I am glad to hear that I am not the only one who has had issues here.

The other thing I will add is: on payday, you need to be there with signed checks in hand. Cold beer in the cooler if the week went well. Do not screw around with a man's girl, truck, or pay.

 

[treemandan]

Whatever works for you!! As far as the pay scale being the same for a groundsman I disagree. Granted a good groundsman is almost as essential as a good climber in many cirumstances a good climber should have started as a good groundsman there for more experienced even if they are in the begining stages of climbing, HENCE a higher pay scale starting off.

Yeah, when you have a solid duo of climber and groundie you have two people doing the same amount of work, HENCE they should be paid the same. If you want to hang out with dulldrum brush draggers that is your call, I want I guy who is a "mechanic".
I admit this dou is hard to compile but if you have to ask how much it is worth and you come up with some number derived from your spread sheet then you have ask what you are paying for. Clockers or putzes? You want good, you pay, just like you tell your clients. Stop bringing trainees out, get a pro, that is what you charged for. Just because you pay a predetermined hourly rate don't mean that guy gives a crap.

 

[custom8726]

Yeah, when you have a solid duo of climber and groundie you have two people doing the same amount of work, HENCE they should be paid the same. If you want to hang out with dulldrum brush draggers that is your call, I want I guy who is a "mechanic".
I admit this dou is hard to compile but if you have to ask how much it is worth and you come up with some number derived from your spread sheet then you have ask what you are paying for. Clockers or putzes? You want good, you pay, just like you tell your clients. Stop bringing trainees out, get a pro, that is what you charged for. Just because you pay a predetermined hourly rate don't mean that guy gives a crap.

What???

 

[treemandan]

What???

What? Read it again and go to sleep, think about next week, if you don't get it by then I will try again.