New ms880 with 404 pitch 36" bar and chain

[Granberg saw miller]

My new (used) ms880 has a 404 pitch bar and chain and when I first tested it I used it for ripping 2 foot diameter by 2 foot long birch logs but it will only cut if I pull the powerhead and spurs away from the wood otherwise the chain grabs too hard and stops moving. Will it work better if I only rev up the saw halfway rather than all the way or should I try and track down a 3/8 pitch bar and chain that will fit an ms880 bar mount and get a 3/8 pitch drive sprocket from ebay that fits an ms880?

 

[abbott295]

It sounds like your rakers may be too low, thereby making the chain too aggressive for the kind of wood you are cutting. The saw should run full throttle. If your rakers are too low, you certainly do not want to lean on the saw in the cut. With the dogs, you should be able to hold the bar up some to keep it from grabbing without having to pick up the whole saw, which it sounds like you are doing. If this is indeed the problem, i.e., rakers too low, the only thing you can do is to file the cutter teeth back to reduce the raker angle. Read up on progressive raker angles in the millling 101 sticky at the top of the page.

Well there is another way to fix the low rakers, and that would be to buy another chain. ($$) If this is the chain that came with the saw, was it being used in softer wood than what you are cutting? Aggressive raker angles should work better in softer woods

Welcome to Arboristsite and to chainsaw milling. Spend some time reading the milling 101 sticky. It will help you a lot.

 

[Ryan'smilling]

You can also "raise" the rakers by filing the cutter back. Obviously this wasted some cutter life and it's only good for so much adjustment.

Another easy thing to do is to buy or make a smooth bumper to replace the dogs or spikes. You don't need big dogs for milling anyway. Here's a picture of what I'm talking about.

 

[Granberg saw miller]

Can anyone recomend a 36" 404 pitch .063 gauge 108 drive link chain that isn't too aggressive for milling hardwood? The chain I have was advertised as "fast cutting".

 

[Ryan'smilling]

Can anyone recomend a 36" 404 pitch .063 gauge 108 drive link chain that isn't too aggressive for milling hardwood? The chain I have was advertised as "fast cutting".

If you have a new chain that was sold as "fast cutting" you should be able to make a good milling chain out of it. And if it was a new chain, then the rakers might be a little low, but after a couple of filings the cutters will drop back and it will become less aggressive. Do you have a picture of the chain?

 

[Granberg saw miller]

Here is the chain:

 

[buzz sawyer]

What sprocket is on the saw - how many teeth?

 

[buzz sawyer]

The depth gauges look pretty good to me, not too low. Maybe pulling hard because it's a skip-tooth?

 

[Granberg saw miller]

What sprocket is on the saw - how many teeth?

It's a 404-7 Stihl sprocket.

 

[Ryan'smilling]

Looks like semi chisel skip tooth chain. For milling I think guys usually run full chisel, but I'm not an expert. I know you can buy ripping chain but that your can also file regular full chisel chain at a 10° top plate angle and use that.

I bet @redbull660 can hook you up with some .404 chisel chain.

 

[Granberg saw miller]

The depth gauges look pretty good to me, not too low. Maybe pulling hard because it's a skip-tooth?

After reading this about the chain being a skip-tooth I have realized that the chain probably dips down in between the teeth and then the next tooth probably digs into the wood which isn't good for hardwood. I have now ordered a Carlton chisel chain from ebay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/36-CHISEL-...4?pageci=0415b96b-17d4-4bb2-bb93-ec5bba5f15a0
You can copy and paste the URL and I think it should be a good chain for me.

 

[earlthegoat2]

You can use skip tooth for milling but you will get less smooth of a finish. Just takes more planer time afterwards and you may have to cut the boards slightly thicker....like 1/16"

 

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

You can use skip tooth for milling but you will get less smooth of a finish.

Isn't as good a finish but I've used .404 hyperskip ripping chain (a pair of teeth every 9") with my 880 with mesquite which is hard as nails with really good results. Nothing aggressive about it and a good finish, though definitely not as smooth as my 045 Stihl running 3/8" full comp ripping chain. I've found that steadiness of milling technique can more of a difference than skip vs full comp, because it's easy to get a bunch of washboard dig spots if you're applying pressure from the wrong angle. I'd say if it was a stock new chain and judging by the photos, the rakers weren't the problem, and most guys seem to buy crosscut chain and file back the angle each filing til they have it down to 10 degrees, and I haven't heard of such a complaint while it's still 30 degrees. Think it's probably technique. In my first days of milling big tropical trees with my 045 and a skip tooth 3/8 42" ripping chain, it could be really grabby and dig to a stop, but I was milling with another guy and two people out of sync can make a job way harder than one person. Since I've started milling solo, I've learned to let the saw cut on its own when the chain is fresh and sharp and apply almost no pushing pressure. Push on the mill at all and you'll dig right in.

 

[rarefish383]

Did anybody notice he said the felling dogs are digging in. Most people take the dogs off and put wheels on it so it will roll/track easy. I’m running a 50 year old Homelite Super 1050 with a 36”bar and 404. I wouldn’t dream of going to 3/8. The 404 will snip a nail off and you hardly notice it. My 660 with 36” and 3/8 hits a small nail and wipes out the whole chain. Two foot Birch shouldn’t make an 880 break a sweat.

Use guide rails or guide board on ever cut, not just knocking the top cap off. It will keep the cut straight and smooth. Run the saw wide open, that’s how they are designed. If you have to hold back on it a little to get it to run free so be it. I run out of the box Stihl full comp yellow box chain. If the chain is sharp two foot Red Oak doesn’t even slow it down.

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

All the saws I've setup for mills we sharpened the chain to a 10* angle. That chain looks like a std 30* angle.

Would that be causing an issue?

 

[rarefish383]

Hey Choppy, I run out of the box chain because I use my big saws to cut firewood too, and I’m too lazy to swap chains back and forth. Years ago someone did some time tests and there wasn’t much difference in speed. My friend that only mills with his saw has ripping chain and I think it may cut a little smoother for a rookie. But, once you get in a grove you can mill some pretty good looking slabs with standard chain.

 

[rarefish383]

Oh, to answer your question, in my opinion a standard grind on the chain doesn’t slow it down or cause digging in problems. I might hold back on the saw to keep the revs up, but that’s in soft wood where it cuts faster than it can clear the saw dust.

 

[Coralillo Lo Pro]

Did anybody notice he said the felling dogs are digging in.

I missed that honestly because I assumed he was using an Alaskan mill, though reading again it seems more like he was freehand ripping, as that's the only way the dogs can dig in. The inside clamping bar contacts the log on a mill before the dogs ever can. But freehand, absolutely, the torque of an 880 will yank the dogs right into a log. Should never stop the chain, though, no idea what that is. But we seem to be given advice for milling when it's not even clear that's what he was doing. Agree with all you say about using guide rails every cut, running wide open, etc. And I think it likely that as soon as I start milling again with my 880 with a roller tip on it vs the hardnose it came with, I'm gonna fall in love with .404 all over again. It's funny, conventional wisdom that I believed in starting out was you had to use ripping chain to mill properly at all, but real life experience I've heard from milling veterans - and my own experience - is that it's not as big a difference as all that. Of course, I've heard the opposite isn't true. Haven't tried it myself, but have heard that crosscutting with a ripping chain is a monumentally slow pain in the ass. Luckily I have an arsenal of saws at my disposal now so can dedicate one to firewood, one to milling, one to felling.

 

[tbehunin1]

Can anyone recomend a 36" 404 pitch .063 gauge 108 drive link chain that isn't too aggressive for milling hardwood? The chain I have was advertised as "fast cutting".

I'd reccomend a bigger saw. If it's bogging down it's probably because your saw is old or not big enough for milling. Example, I cut trees and mill, I have a 660 that is an absolute beast of a saw but much to small for milling with a 36inch bar. After months and months of contemplating I got a new 880 off of marketplace and now it's a quarter of the cut time. I run the 880 with a 36 inch bar. That said, that expensive. Here's some other ideas.
Like everyone else is saying your raker angle has a lot to do with it. Makers control how deep of a bite the teeth take. To high and your chain won't cut at all, too low it'll bog down. Your milling some pretty demanding stuff that makes a 30k bandsaw mill struggle, this is some hard cutting. Next thing, it sounds counter intuitive but sharpen the teeth, if the teeth aren't sharp it doesn't cut as easy and thus takes more power for the same cut. As you do that as well it in turn lowers the raker angle. Your milling, you are going to do a LIT of cutting. Take the time to set up your chain right. After you get it down then each sharpen do 2 or 3 passes per tooth and the same on that tooths raker. Keep the angles the same on both sides of the chain or it won't cut strait. When I started milling I was at about 30 minutes a cut, before I bought a new saw I messed with the chain first. What I found is that stihl makes a sharpener that files the raker and the teeth at the same time. I highly highly reccomend, brought cut time down to 15 minutes for the same cut. The 880 then brought it down to about 7 minutes. However, if you get that raker sharpener and it's still too aggressive then you have to sharpen it by hand. In which case learn your stuff. Milling with a properly sharpened chain is all the difference. These saws are too big for you to hold them back. Pushing or holding these saws back too much makes it more prone to kickback which again these saws are much to big to even try and fight that. Another thing you might run into is your saw itself. Milling is slow but even slower if it's not working like it should. Don't even question it, clean your filter. Some places reccomend cleaning ever 5 uses. Spark plugs. They're like $5 and so simple. Check your carb and for old gas. Those three things fix 90% of chainsaw problems and will give you lotss more power. While your at it the fuel filter and cleaning your gas tank out is a good maintence item as well.

Conclusion,
first try the stihl 2 in one raker and tooth file. (About $50) plugs and filter (filters are easily washed)
If that doesn't do it then you have to sharpen by hand. Mess with the raker angles until it eats at a rate the saw can handle. Do some research. There's even a book about it that says it's chain sharpening method reduces time 70%
If those still don't meet tolerance and you are going to realistically do more milling, get a bigger saw that can handle what you are cutting. See milling specs online. Granberg mills have a reccomended saw size for each size of mill that you can reference.