New pictures of "Babe"

[Treemann]

Tracks of my Tears

[I agree, tracked units are over built over complicated to work on, NOT as maneuverable as a Rg-50. Tracks are fine for a bull dozer. I have tested Carlton, and Vermeer. Track drives are just not for stump grinders that go through gates, and down landscape paths. My RG-50 has two drive wheels and I have never, not been able to get where I am going. I can even use the wheel boom to pick up the front of the machine to place it in tight spots...........NOW, if my machine weighed 5000 pounds?, maybe. Way, too expensive too. Not to offend anyone out there. You get the job done too. I should put a smiley face on this, but...............

 

[gr8scott72]

[I agree, tracked units are over built over complicated to work on, NOT as maneuverable as a Rg-50. Tracks are fine for a bull dozer. I have tested Carlton, and Vermeer. Track drives are just not for stump grinders that go through gates, and down landscape paths. My RG-50 has two drive wheels and I have never, not been able to get where I am going. I can even use the wheel boom to pick up the front of the machine to place it in tight spots...........NOW, if my machine weighed 5000 pounds?, maybe. Way, too expensive too. Not to offend anyone out there. You get the job done too. I should put a smiley face on this, but...............

Wait a minute. Too expensive? Have you priced the RGs recently?

I can and often do pick the front of the machine up to reposition it also. Very easy even with a 4,000 (not 5,000) lbs machine.

The Carlton is only 1,000 lbs heavier than the RG and is spread out over the entire track where as the RG's weight is all on 6 spots. I bet the ground PSI is the same or even lower on the Carlton.

There have been a few spots I've been in that a wheels machine would've been a pain having to go back and forth, back and forth (and a few spots not big enuf to even do that) where as with the tracks you can turn on a dime and spin in place.

And I don't care which is better in the wheel/track argument, I will NEVER use another grinder without a remote.

I also prefer the direct belt drive of the Carlton over the Hydro drive of the Rayco.

 

[Mowingman]

I have a Bandit track machine, and I don't think I would ever go back to a rubber tire machine. Also, Carlton is wrong. You can tow any hydraulic machine if there is an emergency that requires it. All you have to do is disconnect the hydrauic hoses that power the travel motors. Cap them so you do not leak oil, then, tow the machine. The motors will turn freely and you will not harm them if you are just towing a short distance, like out of a yard and onto a trailer.
I have done this many times to hydro drive mowers, and even to large track hoes.
Jeff

 

[epicklein22]

[I agree, tracked units are over built over complicated to work on, NOT as maneuverable as a Rg-50. Tracks are fine for a bull dozer. I have tested Carlton, and Vermeer. Track drives are just not for stump grinders that go through gates, and down landscape paths. My RG-50 has two drive wheels and I have never, not been able to get where I am going. I can even use the wheel boom to pick up the front of the machine to place it in tight spots...........NOW, if my machine weighed 5000 pounds?, maybe. Way, too expensive too. Not to offend anyone out there. You get the job done too. I should put a smiley face on this, but...............

We have a couple rayco stumpers at my work. While they grind pretty d@mn good, a lot is left to be desired. If it isn't 4 wheel drive, forget about it. Our 4 wheel drive RG-50 is weak and spins easily. If it rains any amount, you are in for sliding on any decent grade. I can't even imagine a 2wd. While I have never used a remote, I can see the pluses and minuses. While it would be really nice to stand back away from the dust and the flying objects, along with being able to stand where ever you want; how can you make sure you are getting everything without being close up to look? Using the Rayco, if the shield is clean, I can see everything that is going on. Tracks may be nice for certain situations, but it isn't the end all be all. I think this argument can relate to skidsteers, tracks or wheels? Each setup has it's advantages.

 

[gr8scott72]

We have a couple rayco stumpers at my work. While they grind pretty d@mn good, a lot is left to be desired. If it isn't 4 wheel drive, forget about it. Our 4 wheel drive RG-50 is weak and spins easily. If it rains any amount, you are in for sliding on any decent grade. I can't even imagine a 2wd. While I have never used a remote, I can see the pluses and minuses. While it would be really nice to stand back away from the dust and the flying objects, along with being able to stand where ever you want; how can you make sure you are getting everything without being close up to look? Using the Rayco, if the shield is clean, I can see everything that is going on. Tracks may be nice for certain situations, but it isn't the end all be all. I think this argument can relate to skidsteers, tracks or wheels? Each setup has it's advantages.

Each does has its advantages but after using both a wheeled and non-remote grinder, I think the tracks and remote wins out in more situations than not.

 

[Mowingman]

Each does has its advantages but after using both a wheeled and non-remote grinder, I think the tracks and remote wins out in more situations than not.

I agree 100%. That is why I recently sold my Rayco 1625. The Bandit with tracks and remote does everything I need it to do, and in ground conditions where the Rayco would have buried to the frame.
Jeff

 

[Treemann]

Tracks, wheels

Yeah, I guess it's all about what you likle the best. AND, I think it's about what part of the country you work in. Colorado is really arid and the soils are dry. I can take my RG-50 two wheel into the Rockies and get great traction. If I were in the Eastern states I might want tracks. It's like Art, or ####, you know it when you see it. A remote would be nice!

 

[arborworks1]

I think the tracks are the best setup for my area. After all the rain we have had I would have never thought about taking a wheeled grinder into places the tracks go and don't leave a mark. Plywood for a 90 degree spin in a nice yard.

Up and down hills and chip piles no worries.

 

[MOE]

Wow Scott, that is cheap. It wouldn't be 5k here, but I would bid between 2-2500.

We got the same problem here. Guys towing crappy machines behind crappy trucks, and bidding super low prices over the phone.

But, at the same time, my phone has all but stopped ringing, so you gotta give a little I guess.

I'm that guy with the crapy tow behind and an old truck. Yes, a big self propelled machine would be great but there just isn't enough work to support it. I am still able to make $100-$150 an hour but the jobs can be far between at times. I live in a semi rural area that many people don't care if there are stumps in there lawn. They might put a flower pot or bird feeder on it and forget about it. There is a rayco RG 50 and a few 252's in my area. I use a big tow behind,(rayco 1665AC) because it is cheap horsepower. It is old and keeping it going can be a headache but it but the overhead is certainly lower. Most of the stumps I do are larger oak, willow, cottonwood, ash and elm. most of the jobs I do are in larger lots where I am able to manuvere in place without too much trouble. One advantage I do notice with a tow behind is that the chips are all contained in a nice pile. for me and the amount of work It was a cheaper way to get big HP without payments. If the workload changes, then I will certainly look at a big self propelled.

 

[Treemann]

Tow behind

You got the right idea. I tried to do stumps in Virginia close to the Weast Virginia line. It doesn't matter how ugly your machine is. If you have it all paid for, you can charge what you want. Back in the day, here in Colorado, I had a big list of Landscapers, tree services, construction companies etc, and I was always two weeks behind. BUT! That was back in the day. To hell with buying new machines. Fix the old ones. They are built like B-52s just keep them going.

 

[stumper067]

over the years

Over the last 29+ years or so I have cut stumps part time, I recently had back surgery and sold out for the time being...having said that, all of those years cutting stumps, I never made an abundance of excess money... it was always a struggle but I continued to do it because I like doing it...Here in Mississippi I don't think you could make a solid living and run your business right (insurance, license and such) without offering some kind of additional service such as tree or landscaping. I have always used new machines, buying several over the years..but think about today if you buy one of those new 42,000 Carltons then pay for insurance,truck,trailer...man you are forced to beg for work and then all of a sudden you don't enjoy what your doing anymore...plus there is all ways the guy around the corner with no insurance and a broke down machine ready to underbid you...just my opinion but I cut stumps because I really enjoy the type of work, I don't think any of us will ever get close to rich....and If anyone out there has gotten rich just cutting stumps, I stand corrected...(just my opinion) thanks,

 

[bombdude]

we got a local guy here that bids $15/stump over the phone sight unseen. He's the crappy truck/machine, no insurance, get there in 6 months & do a poor job guy that I was referring to in my post. But he gets work b/c he's cheap.

Moe, I have no issue with your set up. Matter of fact, I've considered an older big machine for the extra hp. I currently run a 352. Lower overhead does give you more breathing room in your pricing. However, these super cheap guys that are "whoring up the market" as i've heard it referred to on here in the past makes it tough for somebody to be competitive.

Stumper067, I haven't been at it nearly as long as you, but your description is very similar to what i've found in the past year & a half.

 

[stumper067]

maybe it's time

Maybe it's time those that take our business seriously, trying to please customers and do a professional job, form an association such as NSRA or NSSA (national stump removal assoc.) or the (National stump service assoc.) This assoc. could somewhat standardize rates that everyone could use as a loose guideline and that could be adjusted to different areas of the country. This assoc. could also test and experiment new equipment even receiving discounts for it's members. I can think of hundreds of ways this assoc. could be helpful to its members but most of all we could meet and talk about new and different ideals. The pubic, once they saw an assoc. sticker or insignia would know they are dealing with professionals who take their service seriously. The assoc. could have and elected leaders and a small yearly membership fee to keep it going.........would any one else be interested in something like this??

 

[arbor pro]

Forming an association of professionals can't do any harm but, I doubt that you'll ever have any success at standardizing pricing without either 1) unionizing the trade or 2) getting the government further involved. I don't like either idea and I don't think there is a viable solution to getting rid of lowball pricing. As someone who provides both tree care and stump grinding services, I believe the main problem facing the stump grinding industry is simply that stump grinding is not a highly technical trade. Most any homeowner can rent a small stump grinder and do the work him or herself with a relatively small learning curve. Unless a removal job requires a specialty machine which can't be obtained through a rental store, we, as stump grinding professionals, are simply offering our clients the convenience of not having to rent the machine and do it themselves. Many of those homeowners have realized how easy it is to do and have purchased their own machines with the intention of making a few side bucks or, in some cases, to dream of getting rich my going into the trade full-time.

I don't mean to offend anyone on this site but, the simple truth is that stump grinding is a very basic blue collar profession. I do both white collar and blue collar work and I have no problem with either type. I'm simply saying that stump grinding requires very little training or experience to break into. It's a profession where having little or no practical experience is not a problem so long as you have $5-10k to buy a used grinder. Stump grinding is just not that hard to do and, so long as machines are plentiful, it will never bring the bread and butter that specialized tree care services have the potential to bring - especially during tough economic times where so many people are looking for side jobs to bring in extra money.

Look at the guys who are still trying to make a living by offering just skid steer services and nothing else. Twenty years ago, before every contractor and farmer owned one, a guy with a 643b bobcat could actually make a living just by sitting in the seat of his loader and leveling dirt or drilling post holes all day. That's all he had to do - sit on his butt and move some dirt or clean out a livestock barn. Now, anyone can get his hands on a skid steer and do the work himself so long as it's not real technical in nature. The machines are getting easier and easier to operate. The same goes for stump grinders.

Time will never go backwards. Stump grinding is not what it was 20 years ago and it never will be again. It's time to deal with the changing times and either accept it for what it is or find another trade to get into. Neither certification nor membership to the NSRA is going to bring back the yesteryears.

 

[B-Edwards]

I sell firewood although this may be my last year as all my wood came from the tree service. Even at that it was tough to make any money. I went through our small town this morning and I have never seen in my 45 years in this place all of the firewood for sale. There are pick-up trucks small dump trucks and different kinds of trailers all with firewood for sale. Most of my customers are high end and only burn for the atmosphere not necessarily for heat and I always took them nice clean seasoned and firm wood. Most of the other firewood sellers sold green or half rotten wood so I think I am solid if I decide to keep selling it. My point is that I agree that when work can be done by most anyone then anyone will try it and keep (your) profit down. I think if you do great fair priced work you will be ok and that seems to be what Scott has offered.I don't care what it is I am doing as far as offering a service, I try to be the best.

 

[Oly's Stump]

I agree with Arbor Pro. To be full time in the stump grinding business you need to offer other services to stay afloat. I currently offer log removal for the local tree services. I also now sell firewood. I also have contractors that hire me to clear lots for building. I snow plow commercial lots during the winter slow time which hopefully pays the bills. These services usually keeps me busy full time. As for these low ball stump grinders in my area, it is just a matter of time and they go out of business. I lost count on how many came and gone. Their old machnies take a dump and they cannot afford to repair them. Most of my work is with tree service's and I am fair with them and they know about what I want when they bid their jobs. I bill them once a month. I do the job right and never have been called back to re-do a job.

 

[arbor pro]

You guys touched on the two keys to staying afloat today: 1) diversification or specialization and 2) professionalism/customer service.

Diversification will help keep you afloat when lowballers enter into one of your service areas by enabling you to focus your efforts on another service sector. If you are specialized - in that you and very few others like you are able to provide a certain service that the general public is unable to do themselves, then you will always have a leg up on someone who is unable to perform the task without first obtaining licensing, training or accreditation.

Professionalism and customer service will help to prevent your better clients from even considering the lowballers in the first place. I have had enough bad experiences with mechanics, plumbers, etc that, when I find one that does an exceptional job at customer service, i will often stay with that company even if his prices are a bit higher than the competition. That is - until he slacks off on customer service or if he knowingly tries to overcharge me.

 

[ibadvanced]

Got to throw me two cents in here. Been in the stump grinding biz full time for 15 years now and it general is better every year. Not gettin rich, but making a livin. It really boils down to time and good decisions. Building a strong customer base and knowing how to deal with people are essential. Most of jobs don't require me to give bids, they just tell me to come do it, which means no competition. They know I will treat them fair. Seen a lot of stump grinders come and go over the years and some just hang around and linger. You are right, it dosn't take many smarts to buy a machine and make a couple bucks and your not going to build a business just anywhere, sometimes it's just not there. Old machine or new machine, it still boils down to good business and time. Sorry to ramble and all misspells, but in a hurry.

 

[MOE]

In this area, (central MN) all of the stump grinders I know, including me. have another job and do it on the side. It's been a decent sideline for me but I can't see how it would work full time in this area. There just isn't enough work. The biggest issue around here that stumps really don't bother some people. I notice the economy is effecting it as well. Having stumps ground out is a luxury, house payments come first. I haven't changed my bidding. I'm not getting as many jobs; a lot of the jobs I miss aren't getting done by anyone.
Somekind kind of a standard rate would be nice but I don't see it working here. I'm willing to leave my stump grinder sit instead of working cheap. It's paid for and I have a full time job. The next guy may be living hand to mouth and do it cheap. It's a free market and I think that's the what the near future will be like.

 

[stumper067]

somewhere between white and blue collar

With all sincerity and respect arbor pro you have some good points, but I disagree on a few. I think running a stump removal business takes experience and skill...first being a good business man and second not tearing up a very expensive equipment setup and the customer's property. It's true a 10 year old could run the machine but would he know to check for underground dangers? Would he know how to repair the machine (which most of us must do to stay in business) Would he be good at promoting and advertising to stay a float. Would he know how to deal with the tax folk and such...?? I think it takes someone with a dream, some training, and a little common knowledge to run just about any kind of business no matter if it be a brain surgeon or stump cutter...."always opinion not fact"
Thanks,