New Project:MS460. Any tips for me?

[drf255]

I was looking for building tips, EXACTLY, like you just give me, thank you. The only Chinese part going in this saw will be the tank/handle. Unless I can find a nice one from a 460 or 461. I may get lucky and find a 461 with a trashed top end to get my tank from. The oem bearings are in great shape.

I will say this, Hyway's pistons look great, very nice pieces. They are also light. I want to find an oem that's in good condition. Also looking at the Meteor pistons, and definitely Caber rings. I dont know if it's normal or not, but my stock piston from my 360 says "Mahle" inside it.

Can I ask why you're against the popup?

Be careful with the China tanks. My understanding is that they are actually 440 tanks many times. @MustangMike had some issues.

Yes, the oem slugs can have Mahle or the KS insignia cast into their inner skirts.

As for the popup argument, they do have their place, but generally to optimize port timing.

If you use an 064 piston, I’m not sure on the weight or the timing changes it makes. The bosses must be relieved to fit over the thicker 460 rod small end.

You’ll need a Hemi chamber to use a popup, and unless the popup is done correctly (matching full chamber contour) you could have ineffective combustion. Brad has a pic of a D chamber popup someone milled for him, or he did himself.

Anytime you need a new piston, which isn’t often, you’ll need machine work done again. If you use a 460 piston, you’ll need the base cut on a lathe, and the cost of the chamber and base cut would usually be the same as a popup plus base cut.

There is nothing wrong inherently with a popup. The oem has used in many applications over the years. Above are the reasons I don’t prefer them. YMMV.

 

[Overkill338]

Be careful with the China tanks. My understanding is that they are actually 440 tanks many times. @MustangMike had some issues.

Yes, the oem slugs can have Mahle or the KS insignia cast into their inner skirts.

As for the popup argument, they do have their place, but generally to optimize port timing.

If you use an 064 piston, I’m not sure on the weight or the timing changes it makes. The bosses must be relieved to fit over the thicker 460 rod small end.

You’ll need a Hemi chamber to use a popup, and unless the popup is done correctly (matching full chamber contour) you could have ineffective combustion. Brad has a pic of a D chamber popup someone milled for him, or he did himself.

Anytime you need a new piston, which isn’t often, you’ll need machine work done again. If you use a 460 piston, you’ll need the base cut on a lathe, and the cost of the chamber and base cut would usually be the same as a popup plus base cut.

There is nothing wrong inherently with a popup. The oem has used in many applications over the years. Above are the reasons I don’t prefer them. YMMV.

Is the big bore worth using? 82cc sounds good on paper .

 

[drf255]

Is the big bore worth using? 82cc sounds good on paper .

No

The transfers lose area from the bigger bore.

Oem standard bores perform better than. Big bores this has been proven time and time again.

 

[blsnelling]

Stick with OEM parts. The hunt for bigger and better pistons and/or cylinders rarely runs better than a properly built OEM saw.

 

[Overkill338]

Stick with OEM parts. The hunt for bigger and better pistons and/or cylinders rarely runs better than a properly built OEM saw.

Thanks Brad. I'll use the OEM cylinder, and Meteor piston. The stock piston was scored.

I dont need a ported saw (yet), I just want it to run a 20" with an 8 pin or a 25" with a 7 pin.

 

[TheTone]

Let's be realistic. All Chinese parts are not junk. Not every OEM part is great. The issue here is quality control. The Chinese are capable of making parts as good as they want to. Trouble is, they have captured the low end market by cutting corners and having little or no QC. I have bought Chinese cylinders which were beautifully cast. I have bought Chinese cylinders that were total crap (fortunately got a refund). What it comes down to is, do you want to take a chance? Are you willing to jump through the hoops to get a refund? Are you willing to spend time smoothing ports, grinding off casting flash, etc. If you build to sell, you have a reputation to uphold. If you are a hobbyist and work on your own saws it's a matter of your own cost/benefit judgment.

 

[Overkill338]

For the record, Hyway Parts are not Chinese .

 

[MustangMike]

I think I just responded to you on another site. You may want to re think porting a bit, you can do some of it yourself w/o any problem, and the gains are very noticeable. It won't match the performance of a fully ported saw, but you can often get the lion's share of the gains w/o any real complex stuff.

If you are going to do all of the work you are doing, you want to be really proud of how it runs.

All saws are different, but 460s generally NEED a little porting to out run good running 044/440s, which are close to a pound lighter.

And, ditto what Tone said. I just got a 460 running with a cheap HL Supply cylinder, a Meteor piston, a little clean up of the ports, plus I lowered the intake a bit (with a half round file), and I will bet a good deal of money it will out run just about any stock 460. Also did a muffler mod (very modest, still has the full baffle) and a timing advance (cut the key .020).

 

[dmb2613]

For the record, Hyway Parts are not Chinese .

Where are they made?

 

[cuinrearview]

Where are they made?

https://www.hywayparts.com/aboutus.asp

 

[drf255]

https://www.hywayparts.com/aboutus.asp

True

Taiwan is separate now.

NWP is made in Taiwan IIRC. The best AM cylinders I’ve held in my hands by far. They do a good job.

Hyway needs to browse these forums to see what the aficionados are saying and finding with their products. They could always do an upgraded line that has better specs.

 

[smokey7]

I have also found hyway and nwp to be very nice for aftermarket stuff. At the same time the premium aftermarket topends especially are sometimes so close to the cost of oem that i don't mess with them. But they can be a very good option for stihls that didnt get the sweet price drop like huskys got. In those situations a $89 kit is way better then 170-240 for the oem. I also think there is 2 nwp companys around (nwp new world products) and (nwp new west products) i think that is the right names. I am not sure which is the good one.