New to me, Dayton 2Z463

[Bobby Kirbos]

Today, we went to NJ to visit my grandparents (they love seeing the great grand kids). I had borrowed my grandfather's MS362 for the maple tree and needed to return it. While there, I asked my grandfather about this saw.


If the great Google hasn't failed me, this is a Poulan 245SA, correct?

It's now mine. He bought it new in 1977 and ran the hell out of it for years.

It needs the following:

1. A good cleaning. White death is starting to do its thing on some of the exterior surfaces. It doesn't look like it has made its way into the tanks yet.
2. New fuel line, fuel filter, and spark plug.
3. A new top end. The piston and cylinder wall are killed. It looks like a busted ring.
   
4. New muffler.
5. New clutch cover (the current one is cracked).
   
6. Carb kit (Tillotson HS-59A). I'm assuming since I know my grandfather ran ethanol fuel through this thing and isn't very good about emptying tanks and running dry before long-term storage.

• Fuels may have also contained lead in the 70s and 80s, MTBE in the 90s + whatever other $hit NJ mandates in their fuel.

It's a 74cc saw and it is exactly what I need to round out my 3 saw plan. I would really like to get it running again.
So:
1. How do you kill the white death?
2. These parts should be easy enough to find.
3, 4, 5, 6 - Where do I find non-generic parts for this thing?

 

[a. palmer jr.]

You can always use Poulan parts if you don't mind the color thing...The 245 and 306 share the exterior parts with the Dayton. Parts are still available sometimes on ebay and a few online saw parts stores. The corrosion thing just depends on how bad it is, if it's minor you can sand it down but if it's real bad the parts will need to be replaced..

 

[Bobby Kirbos]

You can always use Poulan parts if you don't mind the color thing...The 245 and 306 share the exterior parts with the Dayton. Parts are still available sometimes on ebay and a few online saw parts stores. The corrosion thing just depends on how bad it is, if it's minor you can sand it down but if it's real bad the parts will need to be replaced..

The corrosion looks like it is just on the surface. I think a good sanding will take care of it. There is some on the tank cover and the rear handle.

Color mismatch, no problem. It's nothing that can't be fixed with a rattle can. I will probably end up putting a fresh coat of paint on the whole thing anyway since I will be sanding parts of it to get rid of the corrosion.

245/306 exterior parts interchangeability... good to know, thank you.

I have also learned that the 245SA has a somewhat unique decomp setup compared to the 245/245a. The Google finds NOTHING when I look for SA specific parts. Is there any reason that I couldn't use a standard 245 jug, piston, and rings? I did find a piston/rings kit AND a jug for a 245/245a on ebay. The 245 jug that I found looks like it does not have the decomp port. I know that starting a 74cc saw without a decomp will require more shoulder power, but I remember this thing destroying everything it was put into so I don't know that I mind.

The clutch cover isn't actually missing; it has a good size crack. Can magnesium be brazed? I have no experience with TIG welding, but I can braze.
I also have the muffler, but it's 40 years old and has seen every hour that this saw has run. I fear that it will fall apart if it loses 3 more iron atoms. If I have to, I can make a new muffler.

 

[Little Al]

Clean the "White death" off with wire brush in corded drill or air tool make sure you end up with a total shiny surface no grey or crud on the surface check the pits if any carefully for cleanliness obtain a liquid 2pt epoxy mix & paint the cleaned surface to seal from the atmosphere use a many coats as necessary to obtain an airtight seal paint colour of choice .DON'T stand on bare concrete

 

[farmer steve]

Today, we went to NJ to visit my grandparents (they love seeing the great grand kids). I had borrowed my grandfather's MS362 for the maple tree and needed to return it. While there, I asked my grandfather about this saw.

View attachment 659462
If the great Google hasn't failed me, this is a Poulan 245SA, correct?

It's now mine. He bought it new in 1977 and ran the hell out of it for years.

It needs the following:

1. A good cleaning. White death is starting to do its thing on some of the exterior surfaces. It doesn't look like it has made its way into the tanks yet.
2. New fuel line, fuel filter, and spark plug.
3. A new top end. The piston and cylinder wall are killed. It looks like a busted ring.
   
4. New muffler.
5. New clutch cover (the current one is cracked).
   
6. Carb kit (Tillotson HS-59A). I'm assuming since I know my grandfather ran ethanol fuel through this thing and isn't very good about emptying tanks and running dry before long-term storage.

• Fuels may have also contained lead in the 70s and 80s, MTBE in the 90s + whatever other $hit NJ mandates in their fuel.

It's a 74cc saw and it is exactly what I need to round out my 3 saw plan. I would really like to get it running again.
So:
1. How do you kill the white death?
2. These parts should be easy enough to find.
3, 4, 5, 6 - Where do I find non-generic parts for this thing?

Bobby i have a Dayton that might have some parts on it you can use. come get it. bring a box.

 

[a. palmer jr.]

If you're gonna change the fuel line and filter might be a good time to do the painting while it's apart because of having to seal the gas tank when you're done. I think I might have used some Motoseal to help seal that tank, can't remember because it's been a while.

 

[smokey7]

I have a 306 here with very light carbon scoring. Still runs very strong last i ran it was 2 years ago. Its missing the clutch cover. So i made a aluminum spacer plate. I ran it with a 32" on my mill it did very very well for a old saw with really too much bar on it but it pulled and oiled it pretty dang good. I know most would say i was a fool for running that setup on a 59cc saw, but it did very well.Id probably sell it since i obviously dont need it if i havnt used it in 2 years. I have no time anymore to cut much outside of helping my dad do his semi with pup trailer load of firewood per year. So i live vicariously through you guys.

 

[Bobby Kirbos]

If you're gonna change the fuel line and filter might be a good time to do the painting while it's apart because of having to seal the gas tank when you're done. I think I might have used some Motoseal to help seal that tank, can't remember because it's been a while.

I've got some gasket paper and a can of High Tack. The tank is the least of my worries. I'm more worried about finding the jug, piston, and clutch cover for this 40yr old machine.

 

[pastryguyhawaii]

The corrosion looks like it is just on the surface. I think a good sanding will take care of it. There is some on the tank cover and the rear handle.

Color mismatch, no problem. It's nothing that can't be fixed with a rattle can. I will probably end up putting a fresh coat of paint on the whole thing anyway since I will be sanding parts of it to get rid of the corrosion.

245/306 exterior parts interchangeability... good to know, thank you.

I have also learned that the 245SA has a somewhat unique decomp setup compared to the 245/245a. The Google finds NOTHING when I look for SA specific parts. Is there any reason that I couldn't use a standard 245 jug, piston, and rings? I did find a piston/rings kit AND a jug for a 245/245a on ebay. The 245 jug that I found looks like it does not have the decomp port. I know that starting a 74cc saw without a decomp will require more shoulder power, but I remember this thing destroying everything it was put into so I don't know that I mind.

The clutch cover isn't actually missing; it has a good size crack. Can magnesium be brazed? I have no experience with TIG welding, but I can braze.
I also have the muffler, but it's 40 years old and has seen every hour that this saw has run. I fear that it will fall apart if it loses 3 more iron atoms. If I have to, I can make a new muffler.

I just rebuilt my 245SA with the cylinder from my 245a. It's the same. The mufflers from the two do not interchange, though. The bolt holes are different. You can have my SA muffler if you ever need it. I've repaired cracks on both my clutch covers with JB Weld on the inside. Holds up fine. These saws aren't too bad to start without a decomp. I would change the starter rope while you have it apart just because it's not as easy to get to as most saws.

Stephen, @Acornhill, on this site is a great source for parts.

 

[Bobby Kirbos]

I got the flywheel off and noticed the wire running under it. 3 screws to remove the pull start assembly, and CRAP!!!!. It's a points saw. Oregon part number 33-053 will fix that problem. I've never had to deal with points and see no reason to keep them when better technology exists. As I remember, spark was never a problem with this saw. Fouled plugs were more of a problem - running the mfgr specified 16:1 of straight 30 does that.

Would it be cool to bring this saw back to factory original condition, sure. Is it necessary, nope. I want a runner, not a temprimental garage queen.

I picked up a couple rattle cans of Krylon "Husqvarna Orange". I thought about bringing it back to its roots and painting it "Poulan Green", but this has always been an orange saw. Does anyone know where I can find Dayton decals for it? If I can't find any, I may use the Poulan 245 decals otherwise I will have an orange and black hunk with no way of knowing what it really is.

 

[Bobby Kirbos]

Got the rebuild kit for the carb today, so I....... rebuilt the carb. The inside was bone dry except for a few spots that had collected gas varnish. All internal holes were blown through with carb cleaner. I'm glad that I did the welch plugs. There was a small screen under 1 of the plugs.

This was the first carb rebuild that I have done. It was easier than I thought it would be. YouTube is a GREAT resource (how to remove welch plugs).

 

[Bobby Kirbos]

Thinking ahead....

I would like to put a 24"-28" bar on this puppy after I get it running. (Obviously I will wait until I get it running before buying a bar.)

From what I am reading on this here interwebs, the Poulan branded version came with a 0.325 chain while the Dayton branded version came with a 0.404 chain. Somewhere along the line, my grandfather had replaced the OEM spur drive with an Oregon rim & drum, so my pitch options are wide open.

I've looked around and it seems that no one makes a 0.325 bar longer than 20", which leaves me with 2 options : 3/8 and 0.404" (unless I get a hard nose bar).

I fully expect that I will get loops for this saw from somewhere online (**). Also this will be my "I need more bar" saw (not my default go-to), so full skip chain is not out of the question.

SO, I'm asking for input from those who more knowledgeable than I am -- given my target bar length, should I go:

• 0.325" (on a hard nose), 3/8", or 0.404"
• skip or full comp

????

** I can't seem to find a "good" chainsaw shop in my area. All of the ones that I find are brand specific dealers, and if your need does not have THEIR brand specific part number --- "sorry, I can't get that part". No one spin chains either.

 

[farmer steve]

Thinking ahead....

I would like to put a 24"-28" bar on this puppy after I get it running. (Obviously I will wait until I get it running before buying a bar.)

From what I am reading on this here interwebs, the Poulan branded version came with a 0.325 chain while the Dayton branded version came with a 0.404 chain. Somewhere along the line, my grandfather had replaced the OEM spur drive with an Oregon rim & drum, so my pitch options are wide open.

I've looked around and it seems that no one makes a 0.325 bar longer than 20", which leaves me with 2 options : 3/8 and 0.404" (unless I get a hard nose bar).

I fully expect that I will get loops for this saw from somewhere online (**). Also this will be my "I need more bar" saw (not my default go-to), so full skip chain is not out of the question.

SO, I'm asking for input from those who more knowledgeable than I am -- given my target bar length, should I go:

• 0.325" (on a hard nose), 3/8", or 0.404"
• skip or full comp

????

** I can't seem to find a "good" chainsaw shop in my area. All of the ones that I find are brand specific dealers, and if your need does not have THEIR brand specific part number --- "sorry, I can't get that part". No one spin chains either.

Bobby my Stihl dealer will make whatever size you need. @bear1998 had some made there for his 395. they are near Shippensburg though. i go there twice a week.

 

[Bobby Kirbos]

That's going to take a bit more than some fine sand paper to fix


Also ::
Could excessive free play in the piston rod bearing cause a ring to break? For this saw, how much play should there be? I've got a bit more wiggle than I think there should be, but this may be normal for this saw.

 

[hotshot]

Looks like it was ran lean & the scoring broke the ring piece off, then gouged the cylinder, but that is a guess without having it in front of me.
I don’t see any residual oil still on those parts.

Full complement needle bearings will have wiggle, that’s normal.

You’re lucky that OEM cylinders & pistons with rings for the 245 are available (on Fleabay at the moment), and at decent prices.

I’ve paid more than that for a P245 piston alone.

 

[Bobby Kirbos]

UPDATE

While I'm in there, I'm also replacing:

• Crank seals
• Connecting rod
• Connecting rod journal bearing
• Starter rope

At this point, I'm waiting on the seals and the SS ignition module. I may have this thing running by the weekend.

 

[Bobby Kirbos]

NOT TRYING TO TURN THIS INTO AN OIL THREAD

Looking at the connecting rod, I see some heat related discoloration. Rings don't just break unless they get excessively hot. I doubt he straight gassed it, but I'm thinking that my grandfather may have run this saw at 50:1 for an extended time.

With that in mind, I ask the following question:

Considering the following:

1. The damaged/original top-end parts show signs of excessive heat
2. The top-end on this engine is totally new
3. The original mfgr spec is 16:1 of straight 30

For break-in (first gallon or 2), would you:

1. run 16:1 with straight 30 per mfgr spec?
2. run 16:1 with modern 2-stroke oil?
3. run 32:1 with modern 2-stroke oil? (this is my standard mix)

I'm leaning toward option #2, but I would like input from those who are more experienced than I am.

 

[smokey7]

Either option 3 or 2. But 3 would be my choice. 32:1 with good oil is plenty for just about any saw.

 

[Bobby Kirbos]

IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!

"The Old Man" roared to life at 21:55 hrs this evening. In an effort to not piss off the neighbors, I ran it in the garage with the doors closed only for about 15 seconds. HOLY CRAP is that thing a beast to pull - new top end, 74cc with no decomp.

I'm glad I did the bottom end parts that I did. The new journal bearing needles and connecting rod made a big difference in the amount of wiggle. The new crank seals are noticeably tighter on the crank shaft than the ones that I removed.Tomorrow I will work on getting the thing tuned.

 

[Bobby Kirbos]

HELP!

This one is baffling to me. The saw runs just fine as long as I'm on the throttle. As soon as I let it sit and idle, it will idle for a short time then flood out and die. This is with the low needle completely turned in. It seems to me that the carburetor is not metering the fuel properly. I did put in a rebuild kit. Did I possibly screw something up or missed something when doing the carburetor rebuild? Is this a symptom of a different problem?