New to milling (long)

[Booma]

Hi guys,

I've lurked here for several weeks now but just registered so that I could post and comment on how helpful all the information you guys post really is.

(By the way, I'm an accountant, not a logger, so if I say something so stupid that it boggles the senses, just give me an eye-roll and let's move on LOL!!)

I bought some land with a cabin on it about a year ago and the previous owner was a real woodsy guy. He built the log cabin from timber on the property and left a ton of goodies in the shop such as a wood lathe, a small Husky limbing saw (works great!!), enough pulleys, bolts, etc to start a hardware store, dozens of chainsaw chains, and several items that I had no clue what they were. One of these unidentifiable items appeared to be made of steel tubing and aluminum rails with all sorts of adjusting bolts. I was curious so I dusted it off and found markings "Alaskan MKIII". I googled it and found out that it was a milling attachment for a chainsaw.

There were actually two of these attachments in the shop; I didn't realize they were two seperate items and spent I don't know how long trying to figure out how they attached together (I'll pause now until you stop laughing ). I did a little more googling and found pictures, manuals, and videos of the mill in use. Boy, did I feel like an idiot. (BTW, I'd be willing to sell the other MKIII if anybody is interested)

Anyway, I am a long-time hobby woodworker and was thrilled at the idea of putting all the downed trees on the place to good use. I bought a Stihl 290 with 20" bar and learned how to use it by cutting firewood (there are a couple of funny stories there too but I will spare you). Once comfortable with basic operation, I googled for info on chainsaw milling and found this site. I ground one of the old chains with a dremel to 10 degrees in an alternating configuration (left cutter, right cutter, 0 degree clearing) and attacked a 16" white oak that had blown over at the roots years ago (the bark was falling off in places). I am addicted now.

A few questions. When grinding by hand/dremel, how to you tell how much clearance your raker teeth have? I just crossed my fingers and hit all of them a couple of strokes with the dremel. Seems to work okay but maybe could be better if I got the correct clearance?

Should I grind down some of the teeth so that I have fewer cutters in the log at a time? If so, how many? (again, I've got dozens of useable chains that I can experiment on)

Is the 290 going to survive doing this on a regular basis? I told the dealer what I was planning to use the saw for and he said that it was a good heavy duty saw and could handle it. On the other hand, he admitted complete ignorance to chainsaw milling and didn't seem to know what a rip chain was. Go figure.

I have enough smaller logs to keep me busy for a while but there are several large trees down that I would like to put to use as well (one of em is near 3' at the bottom!). To get the widest capacity, how close to the nose of the bar can you clamp the MKIII on? I got it too close on my first attempt and found that I couldn't turn the chain with my fingers and had to back it up. I don't want to damage the bar.

For my 3' log, I'll probably have to use another attachment to slab it down to a size that my MKIII can handle. I also inherited from the previous owner, a couple of clamp-on jigs for vertical cutting that you guide down a 2x4 that I was hoping to use for this purpose. Anybody got experience with using one of these? I'm not sure how to describe the jigs fully but some of you probably know what I'm talking about. They run about $15-$20 bucks and I've seen them advertised as Pioneer "Lumber Maker Chainsaw Attachments"

Thanks!

(Sorry for the long winded post!)

 

[mtngun]

You came to the right place. This is the best chainsaw milling forum.

If no one here is interested in buying your spare Alaskan, I'd put it on ebay.

290 for milling ? Ha, ha, ha.

If you are serious about milling, look for a 90+ cc saw. Still 066/660, Husky 395. Bigger is better. 36" or 42" bar. Not cheap.

If your bar has a sprocket on the nose, as most do, then the Alaskan clamp must be positioned to avoid pinching the sprocket. There is a way around this, and a couple of threads showing the work around, but most of us just clamp away from the sprocket area. This does reduce your usable bar length.

For example, I have a 36" Alaskan mill, and a 36" bar, but my usable bar length is only 28" with the optional oiler mounted. A 42" bar would be required to make full use of the 36" Alaskan mill.

I use Bailey's ripping chain because it is priced right, leaves a smooth finish, and takes small bites that are easier on the saw, but some people use ordinary chain, because it cuts faster, and they don't care if the finish is rough because it will get planed anyway.

You have a lot of questions, and will have more as time goes by, so all I can say is read the old threads.

 

[mtngun]

For my 3' log, I'll probably have to use another attachment to slab it down to a size that my MKIII can handle.

You should be able to handle a 3' log with a "normal" (36" - 42" bar) Alaskan set up. After you cut the slabs off, the cant will only be about 28".

And .... you're going to need a cant hook or peavy to roll those big logs.

Regarding the mini mills with the "U" shaped clamp, they are terrible, the "U" is springy and allows the clamp to work loose. On the other hand, the Granberg mini-mill, which has the Alaskan style clamping system, is pretty handy.

 

[excess650]

for lots of good milling info, read this: http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=93458

There is an inexpensive device for checking raker height that comes with file and guide kits. It basically bridges a pair of cutters, and gives a slotted surface through which the raker protrudes. File the raker flush with this surface and call it good.

I won't recommend milling with a Stihl MS290, or using skip chain for milling.

The Alaskan MKIII is a decent piece of equipment, and can be used to produce some nice slabs and beams. The key is learning the tricks. More info is available from the manufacturer: http://www.granberg.com/

For longevity of your chosen saw, tune it on the rich side with the H screw, and run more oil (good quality specifically for chainsaws)than the 50-1 specified by the manufacturers these days. Many of us run 40-1 or even more oil.

The 290 should work OK with your "beam machine" if you're only making fence posts or 4x4s. For wider slabs you're going to need a much more powerful saw. I thought my 272xp was anemic, so am using a Stihl 066 and a Husqvarna 3120. Both can handle bars in excess of 30". The keys are lots of torque, sharp chain, and a chain that cuts freely in the end grain when milling.

Milling is work, but more satisfying than just cutting everything into firewood.

 

[striperswaper]

you are so lucky to have all that stuff fall into your lap, you are in for some fun

when you start with your "beam machine" make sure it is fairly tight on your
2 X. I made mine fit with thin piece of flat stock rivited on the inside opposite the saw mount. it sticks out about 10 inches front a back so it makes it aliitle more accurate. since you said you have some logs to start on, you might want to start on not so nice short pieces first, you will improve. I just started with a beam machine this winter...
read up on here on using your real mill, get a big saw and bar, practice and cut some big crotch slabs for some free forms tables
what kind of wood do you have to work with?
BTW many people here can't say enough good about Bailey's, for good reason
order yourself a couple of rippng chain, make some cants and have fun!

 

[Booma]

Thanks for the advice and comments

Striper, I have mostly red and white oak but many other species as well. From what I've been able to identify for sure so far there is also sycamore, cedar, cherry, maple, honey locust, sweet gum, hickory, walnut, elm, and persimmon. I can identify some species by their bark but not all so I'm SOL on some of the down timber I'll just have to saw it up and see if I can identify it from the wood.

 

[BobL]

. . . . . I googled it and found out that it was a milling attachment for a chainsaw.

Nice

I am addicted now.

My deepest sympathy!

A few questions. When grinding by hand/dremel, how to you tell how much clearance your raker teeth have? I just crossed my fingers and hit all of them a couple of strokes with the dremel. Seems to work okay but maybe could be better if I got the correct clearance?

There are several raker depth guides available that you place on the chain so the raker pokes up thru a little slot and you file the excess off. The Oregon guide gives a constant raker depth irrespective of the cutter length. The Carlton guide creates an increasing depth as the cutter gets shorter - this is better, much better.

Should I grind down some of the teeth so that I have fewer cutters in the log at a time? If so, how many? (again, I've got dozens of useable chains that I can experiment on)

You have nothing to lose as long as you maintain symmetry - remove equal numbers of right and left hand cutters, the most you can afford to be different is 1 or cutters per chain.

Is the 290 going to survive doing this on a regular basis? I told the dealer what I was planning to use the saw for and he said that it was a good heavy duty saw and could handle it. On the other hand, he admitted complete ignorance to chainsaw milling and didn't seem to know what a rip chain was. Go figure.

I agree with the others, the 290 will be fine for small logs and a limited amount of milling but if it is not well nursed it will not last over the long term.

To get the widest capacity, how close to the nose of the bar can you clamp the MKIII on? I got it too close on my first attempt and found that I couldn't turn the chain with my fingers and had to back it up. I don't want to damage the bar.

You can clamp direct on the nose provided you drill a hole right thru the middle of the bar and sprocket and then place a 1/4 or 3/8" bolt thru the hole and clamp onto that. For extra safety drill a shallow (1/8") recess in face of the clamp so the nut and bolt head have something to sit in. All my roller and sprocket nose bars have a nose bolt. There is a thread about drilling the holes here. You will have to trawl through the thread to find out about how to drill the hole and there is a bunch of other stuff there about alternative clamping methods that you can ignore.

Good luck.

 

[FJH]

Thanks for the advice and comments

Striper, I have mostly red and white oak but many other species as well. From what I've been able to identify for sure so far there is also sycamore, cedar, cherry, maple, honey locust, sweet gum, hickory, walnut, elm, and persimmon. I can identify some species by their bark but not all so I'm SOL on some of the down timber I'll just have to saw it up and see if I can identify it from the wood.

I m more impressed that an accountant type would consider getting his hands dirty and have to comend you on that My family doctor is a sawmiller too so I guess diffrent strokes as they say.Welcome aboard!

 

[irishcountry]

Sounds like you are at the right place I commend you too for doing all the research you have it is a blast and its a good workout!! The guys on here are first rate full of all kinds of info and willing to share it. This has become all I really care to check on the internet on a daily basis (though our PC has been down for a couple of weeks which was HE double hockey sticks!!) Welcome and hope you like to read!! Can't wait for pics best of luck to you irishcountry

 

[Booma]

BobL, thanks for thread reference. Drilling the bar sounds like a daunting task with my limited skills and equipment.

Do you think this would work: drill and thread a hole thru the MKIII's clamp pads; drill just a dimple on either side of the bar and put a 1/4" set screw thru either clamp pad to seat in the dimple?

(Be gentle, an eyeroll will be fine LOL!)

 

[BobL]

BobL, thanks for thread reference. Drilling the bar sounds like a daunting task with my limited skills and equipment.

Do you think this would work: drill and thread a hole thru the MKIII's clamp pads; drill just a dimple on either side of the bar and put a 1/4" set screw thru either clamp pad to seat in the dimple?

Yep - that would work, but if you set up for drilling a dimple you might as well drill a hole right through the bar and put the bolt right through the MKIII clamp pads. This has been done by a number of people and is easier than tapping threads and stronger and safer overall.

 

[texx]

you could always keep both of the mills and have your 290 mounted on one then a larger saw mounted on the other .
then use which ever one suits the log you are about to attack .
or on the other hand you could send the spare mill to me and i will store it for you and maybe use it now and then .

 

[Booma]

A gracious offer Texx *snicker* but I'm hoping to sell it for enough $$ to cover the cost of a mini mill and maybe a couple of cases of brewsky.

I've had a few PM inquiries about the mills so I drove up to the cabin last night and brought 'em back to clean up and post some pics, just got home.

I also found a couple of 16" circular blades that I assume to go with a mill. I have no idea of their worth (if any) so if they are of interest to you, PM me, I will post pics. They are of no use to me and I would hate to see them go to waste.

As for the bar drilling, having my 290 on hand to look at, I'm not sure drilling it is possible. There are four rivets around the center of the sprocket that are pretty close together. I think I might opt for grinding/filing down the clamp pad ends to see if I can clamp it on top of the rivets and still clear the chain and not interfere with the sprocket. I'll post if it works or not.

Boom

 

[BobL]

As for the bar drilling, having my 290 on hand to look at, I'm not sure drilling it is possible. There are four rivets around the center of the sprocket that are pretty close together. I think I might opt for grinding/filing down the clamp pad ends to see if I can clamp it on top of the rivets and still clear the chain and not interfere with the sprocket. I'll post if it works or not.

Boom

I have a similar bar and I still managed to squeeze a 1/4" hole in between them. The bolt head sides had to be ground down about 1/32" on all 6 side to sit neatly between the rivets.

 

[Booma]

Okay, just for the record, clamping on top of the rivets doesn't work. I brought my rig home the other day and took it this morning to the city mulch center where they take all the trees that get cut out of people's yards to saw some lumber. I was setting up and gradually tightened the nuts (clamp pads centered as well as I could on the rivets) and as soon as I started firming them up, I could feel resistance on the chain when I tried to turn it by hand.

The good news is that as I was sawing up a birch log, a guy from the power company hauled a truck load of logs from some clearing they were doing. First off the truck was a nice red cedar log about 16" and I waved him over to where I was working. He dropped it for me and I sawed it up . Pix:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v637/booma72/?action=view&current=100_6180.jpg

You see about half a log there that I couldn't finish before I had to pick my daughter up at school....I'll take care of that in the morning.

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v637/booma72/?action=view&current=100_6181.jpg

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v637/booma72/?action=view&current=100_6182.jpg

I was absolutely thrilled to get this wood. I built my wife a cedar chest a few years ago and have promised to build one for each of my daughters as well. This should take care of #2.

Boom

 

[AndyR]

I brought my rig home the other day and took it this morning to the city mulch center where they take all the trees that get cut out of people's yards to saw some lumber.

Boom

That's some nice clear cedar. Our local landscape recycling center won't take any logs unless they are cut 3' or smaller. Makes me crazy. There was a beautiful sycamore log over there the other day cut into little cookies...

 

[Booma]

Yeah, I saw some of that too. I guess the tree guys cut it up smaller to make it easier to handle maybe? The logs the power company guy was unloading were big (this cedar was a bit over 18') and he had several pine and oak logs over 2' diameter and same length so I don't think it is a requirement of the mulch yard.

I sure gotta get me a bigger saw after seeing some of the huge gnarly old oak chunks laying around out there. They have a chipper that they run this stuff thru but I'm sure it can't take these monsters. Some of 'em gotta be > 200 yrs old! Will get some pics next time I visit.

 

[striperswaper]

what chain are you using?
a bigger saw? wait 'til you try big hardwood just don't try too much and burn up that fairly new 029

 

[Booma]

I'm using a standard Stihl chain that I ground down for ripping. I misinterpreted a diagram of how to do the grinding and did two 10 degree scoring teeth left, two 10 degree scoring teeth right, and then a 0 degree cutting tooth. What I believe Ishould have done is one tooth 10 degress left, one tooth 10 degrees right, one 0 degree cutting tooth and so on. It seems to work pretty good but ignorance is bliss, heh! There are saw marks on the surface that I think are very minor (somebody might want to post some close up pics of what is considered really smooth?)

I have ground another chain with what I believe is the correct angle configuration and will swap it out when I get around to milling the other half of that last log; the first chain seemed to be slowing down a bit halfway through it.

 

[BobL]

I'm using a standard Stihl chain that I ground down for ripping. I misinterpreted a diagram of how to do the grinding and did two 10 degree scoring teeth left, two 10 degree scoring teeth right, and then a 0 degree cutting tooth.
.
.
the first chain seemed to be slowing down a bit halfway through it.

What is happening here there is the second cutter (which now has a negative rake) will not grab any wood and in fact push itself and the chain away from the side of the kerf. This also means only half the cutters are cutting so it's like running skip chain without the benefits of increased chip clearance. Like all skip chain it loses that initial sharp edge quicker than full comp and explains why the cutting seemed to be slowing down.

BTW this chain setup can also can wear/damage the chain and bar since the chain will be pulled down the groove in a snake like way instead of in a smooth straight line. Best to grind those cutters correctly before it does any long term damage.