New toys

[wct4life]

Just got these in the mail today. Barely used. Also came with a set of petzl foot staps and slings weighted at 22kn.

I'm just curious about what else I need other than a couple of auto-locking krabs to get started?

I liked Chisholm's set-up that Murph posted with the prussic as a safety. Especially liked the pulley since, so far, I prefer to work DdRT.

A guy that I work with was telling me these types of ascenders are to be used only with static lines. Because of the fact that the strength is in the core vs the outer layer. True or B.S.?

Any tips, thoughts, suggestions would be apprieciated.

 

[arboromega]

a fellow climber i work with uses those exact same ascender on dynamic rope...safety blue and blue streak. i have borrowed them time to time and they are some fine ascenders. you should be good to go. i call bs on the static line comment.

 

[BigJohn]

I say its BS. I feel more secure using them on 16 strand safety blue ect. Reason being that witha static line you take a fall you could more easily strip the cover off if loaded hard enough. That would be pretty hard to do with 16 strand or even a 12 strand. I do recomend putting a biner through the top after your rope is in place to keep the rope from rolling out of the top, it happens. I use the same one for a single the right handed blue one shown. I also like to use a yates backup above that with its own tether.

 

[Nickrosis]

Originally posted by wct4life
True

Just to be different. I'm not familiar with this specific model, but toothed ascenders can damage a rope. If you're damaging the load bearing part of the rope, that's a real problem. If you scuff up the outer covering, it's not such an issue. At any rate, I would personally avoid toothed ascenders if an alternative was available.

 

[ORclimber]

The blue one hasn't seemed to damage XTC or arborplex on SRT ascents.

 

[John Stewart]

Re: Re: New toys

Originally posted by Nickrosis
Just to be different. I'm not familiar with this specific model, but toothed ascenders can damage a rope. If you're damaging the load bearing part of the rope, that's a real problem. If you scuff up the outer covering, it's not such an issue. At any rate, I would personally avoid toothed ascenders if an alternative was available.

Nick has a good point!
You have got to use them for the right situation
You can use them to assist you if you can't footlock on a prusik or as a backup on a secondary climbing rope but not for load bearing attachment on a rope!
I learn't from my mistake and will never ever be lazy and use it as a tie in point on my 3:1 pully system again!!!!!!!!
It sheared the cover and the log came down and crushed a fence.
We were all lucky and the toys were put away never to be used again
I only attach now with a V.T or Knut nothing mechanical
Be Safe
Later
John

 

[John Stewart]

Ya I said I was Duh and lazy!!
Thanks for confirmin that point Rocky

 

[BigJohn]

I agree with Brian. We could never put that kinda force an ascender. Besides when used for ascention they should be backed up if you choose to be safe. Thats like saying one time you had a key chain biner fail in a rigging situation like drop crotching 48 inch logs into it so now you put that toy away and never use and its not even suitable to attatch a throw ball. Use your gear accordingly and you'll be fine.

 

[John Stewart]

Also if someone is askin about them for sure someone is thinking of a new use for them!
I would rather them learn from me and my stupidity then hurtin themselves
Wouldn't you agree!
John

 

[murphy4trees]

Easy there my brother...
I smell something to learn here...

John did you say you set a 3:1 z rig which tore the rope...
What kind of rope and how much (many people) pull on the 3:1....
You weren't using a truck or a rope puller on that 3:1 were ya? Were you using pullies on the 3:1 etc? details ... we wnat the details...

Thanks,
PS.. the VT will slip too...

 

[John Stewart]

Hey Murph are you setting me up for Rocky?
Okay here is what we did
We were using High V as a riggin line, not a hand me down climber either it was left behind when my aspiring to be a climber groundman quit, maybe 5 climbs in total
We were lifting logs up a bank and over a fence
We had a pulley set in a tree and would pull up the logs which were right behind a 6 foot privacy fence
We would pull the logs up high enough to pull them over the fence with a tagline
3 of us on the 3:1
We couldn't get any knot to hold they all would slide so I hooked a ascender on to stop the sliding!
The problem was it worked so well we started to go bigger and never adjusted the spot where it was attached
After about 10-12 logs BANG!!!
Go figure!
What a bunch of crackheads EH!
Well we learned and it never will happen again in my company
OK Rocky fire away

 

[John Stewart]

Gee you went pretty easy there Rocky Thanks
Ive played it over a hundred times
and yes I should have got a hammer
Later
John

 

[John Stewart]

Yeh and it bunched up into a huge ball but the core still held by a few strands!
It droped the log enough to break the fence but the system was still some what intact!
Later
John

 

[wct4life]

Just wanted to say thanks for the input from everyone.

Also, for me, anything that my life depends on is only used for that. I figure that I only "use" about three or four percent of my equipments rated breaking strength. This is why I have so much faith in it.:angel:

To use something for rigging and then to turn around and trust my life with it seems ludicris. My thought on this is, I am not always sure of want other forces might be exerted onto my climbing gear if used for things other than me.

Today one of my groundies needed a krab for the portawrap. Instead of asking me for one, he took one from his saddle and used it. Luckily I noticed it before anything had been done and explained to him the what and why's he was wrong.

 

[arboromega]

groundies never touch the saddle! for that reason...
toothed ascenders dont ruin your rope.

 

[John Stewart]

Sorry I didn't answer your question this morning Mike but I had to get the crew going
I think your math might be off on the 3 guys thing
I myself can bench 320lbs and squat the stack at the gym around 500lbs!
So with that out of the way I figure I could pull 300lbs so if I multiply that by the 3:1, should be able to pull 900lbs right
Now add my groundman who is fairly strong and the labourer that I had that day we were roughly pullin 2100lbs if they were pullin 600lbs a piece
My math could be wrong but that is how I see it
Really that isn't the issue anyways it was the constant pulling in the same spot that started fiber tearing and that is the reason it let go
Also just plan old stupidity for trying it in the first place!
Now a even bigger question is are you really interested or are you just cranky because you and your boys can only lift 900lbs together?

Just joking!
I am getting warmed up for the volley of shots that is to follow this post
Later
John

 

[John Stewart]

Hey Mike
Acutually I pulled on a dynometer(I think that is what it is called) at a precision felling course by Arbormaster and on a single pull I could pull just over my body weight around 240lbs.
With one pulley put in I can't remember but it was up really up there in weight
It really shocked me how easy it was to really max something out
Before that course I never thought 3-4 guys on a 3:1 would really need I high tensal strength rope for lifting or pulling
We only use a Samson 1/2 Bull Line now rated around 9800lbs for the 3:1
Problem is still my attachment though because the rope we use in the V.T or Knut still is rated far less thus making the Bull rope's high tensal strength pointless in this set up!
Any suggestions on a stronger rope or attachment device?
Later
John

 

[John Stewart]

What like a Butterfly?
Problem is you can't adjust it easly you have to untie it and move it, not practical
Maybe this would be a good thread!
Later
John

 

[Stumper]

I typically use a Butterfly. RB suggested using a 7wrap V.T. a while back. I haven't tried it but if Roger says it works, it probably really works!

 

[jkrueger]

I've got some guffy stuff from John that I think Rocky was the source of. Firemans rescue rope that you can't even burn with a tourch. Hey, once I figured out how to tame it it has been my best. Ya, and I'd also like some stuff the 'real guys' use.

Jack