OK, this is just out of curiosity but it popped into my mind the other day, So I will ask this question two ways and see what happens. I have been reading on how to notch and watching video's on them ( I don't even take tree's down but its just something I was wondering) anyway lets say there is a 60' tree, and in this case we will figure it both soft and hardwood, with say a 5' BACK lean on it, now would a tree like this have to be topped then dropped in order to be a safe removal (by the way nothing close, say an open area) or would this tree, having a rope in the in it to pull in the felling direction (sorry for all the wrong terms) have to be strapped in order not to worry about slabbing (or I think that is what you call it) or would it be safe to make the notch put a plunge cut have tension on rope and finish the backcut? Again sorry for all the mistakes on terms but hopefully you can understand what I am meaning. The reason I state both hard and softwood is I would assume there is a differance as to how they would act to the forces.
notch?
- Thread starter lostone
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Safer for who? Which way do you want it to go? I say just put the rope in it tighten it up and cut away. Since its in the open like you said who cares what way it goes. There is only one way it can go and that is down. Anything is possible with a strong enough rope, ample pull, and a perfect notch.
Husky372
ArboristSite Guru
either wedge it over or drop it with the lean. why waste time with ropes.
MasterBlaster
TreeHouse Elder
100% accuracy.
:angel:
MasterBlaster
TreeHouse Elder
There ya go! 
I can't conceive throwing a questionable tree without setting a rope it it. I've done it on ROW's and stuff like that, but when a home/whatnot becomes involved, I take no chances.
I can't conceive throwing a questionable tree without setting a rope it it. I've done it on ROW's and stuff like that, but when a home/whatnot becomes involved, I take no chances.
murphy4trees
Addicted to ArboristSite
That's the difference between arborists like us and the loggers whom like to chime in over here on our forum..... And they sound like they think we're crazy for wanting to put a rope in a tree ...The fact is we got rope and we know how to put it into a tree....fast... and we don't have to drag it around the woods all day either, cause we park our trucks in the driveway.... A lot of the skills for logging crossover into treework, but it is a whole different game... Bottom line is we get paid differetly.
So how 'bout we make a deal.... All the arborists won't call you loggers "fellers", if you stop making fun of us for using ropes to pull trees over. And most importantly maybe we can all work at opening our minds a little to the fact that each one of us might just not know everything there is to know about this work.... Different trees, climate, terrain, clientelle, and objectives...
Did you guys see that video clip of Graham blowing the big limb with explosives?... What do you think I send him an email telling him how ridiculous it is to go to all that trouble to take out a limb, when in all my years of pruning apple trees I never had to use explosives once... He'd really appreciate that advice.... huh?
...The fact is we got rope and we know how to put it into a tree....fast... and we don't have to drag it around the woods all day either, cause we park our trucks in the driveway.... A lot of the skills for logging crossover into treework, but it is a whole different game... Bottom line is we get paid differetly.So how 'bout we make a deal.... All the arborists won't call you loggers "fellers", if you stop making fun of us for using ropes to pull trees over. And most importantly maybe we can all work at opening our minds a little to the fact that each one of us might just not know everything there is to know about this work.... Different trees, climate, terrain, clientelle, and objectives...
Did you guys see that video clip of Graham blowing the big limb with explosives?... What do you think I send him an email telling him how ridiculous it is to go to all that trouble to take out a limb, when in all my years of pruning apple trees I never had to use explosives once... He'd really appreciate that advice.... huh?
OK, BJ and 372 sorry I'm not good at explaining things as you can see. When reading on or watching a video on making the notch and back cuts on tree's I have noticed that they really dont show or explain much on backleaned tree's, it was only out of curiosity that I asked this question and just figured I would ask it for understanding how and why's. OK with that aside, the reason I stated with nothing around was incase the answer would have been to take the top out, I guess I should have explained that one, Oops on my part
OK now to get back on track, I guess slabbing wasn't the word I was looking for so theres #2, but anyway when a part of the tree splits and kicks back, there was a pic on here in one of the threads but I can't find it to link up to. What I was getting at was that in making the notch, If on a tree leaning in the direction opposite of the intended fall, would putting the notch on a tree like this possibly cause the tree to want to split while making the cut and kick back onto the individual with the saw. And that was why I was asking if it would be best to put a rope to help keeping the tree from wanting to fall in the wrong direction and keep the tree from wanting to split also, that was also why I was asking if it would be best to strap the tree in a couple of spots just above the notch to help keep if from wanting to split and kick back. This may all be overkill I dont know and I'm not a pro and dont claim or want to be Like I said before it was just out of curiosity, they dont cover it in the limited vid I have, only thing it covers is a tree being cut and allowed to drop in the path of the lean.
Husky372
ArboristSite Guru
he said it's in a field no chance of hitting anything so wheres the need for a rope
rumination
ArboristSite Guru
Lostone,
What you called 'slabbing' is known as a barber chair, and is something to definitely be avoided. Your idea of binding the tree above the notch is one way of doing so. A properly executed plunge cut is another.
As far as dropping a tree against its lean it would be necessary to use ropes/cables and a winch or mechanical advantage of some sort to pull the top of the tree over its center of gravity. Another tactic might be to pound a stack of wedges into your backcut, but as I have no experience with that, I'll leave it to the loggers. Disclaimer: All of the above techniques can be dangerous, and should only be attempted by those who are experienced or have been trained how to do so. Sounds like you know that already, though.
What you called 'slabbing' is known as a barber chair, and is something to definitely be avoided. Your idea of binding the tree above the notch is one way of doing so. A properly executed plunge cut is another.
As far as dropping a tree against its lean it would be necessary to use ropes/cables and a winch or mechanical advantage of some sort to pull the top of the tree over its center of gravity. Another tactic might be to pound a stack of wedges into your backcut, but as I have no experience with that, I'll leave it to the loggers. Disclaimer: All of the above techniques can be dangerous, and should only be attempted by those who are experienced or have been trained how to do so. Sounds like you know that already, though.
murphy4trees
Addicted to ArboristSite
OK Husky,
i Am going to ask you to use your imagination...
IMAGINE that you made your living by driving up to someones house, getting out of the truck , knocking on the door and saying "Hi Mrs. Smith, We're here to do your treework"...
So given that scenario, maybe you could answer your own question... "Where's the need for a rope?"
It might take a little imagination on your part, but becasue I work for Mrs Smith all the time, I can think of 5 good reasons, right off and there are probably another couple of dozen good reasons given different scenarios....
How about this one for starters... You put a rope in a backleaner to see how much pull it takes to move the tree, so when you have to drop one in a critical situation, it's not total guess work...
OK so there is one possible answer to your question... Can you think of anymore???
PS... I know MB's answer.... we should ask the guy who's winning on Jeapordy..
i Am going to ask you to use your imagination...
IMAGINE that you made your living by driving up to someones house, getting out of the truck , knocking on the door and saying "Hi Mrs. Smith, We're here to do your treework"...
So given that scenario, maybe you could answer your own question... "Where's the need for a rope?"
It might take a little imagination on your part, but becasue I work for Mrs Smith all the time, I can think of 5 good reasons, right off and there are probably another couple of dozen good reasons given different scenarios....
How about this one for starters... You put a rope in a backleaner to see how much pull it takes to move the tree, so when you have to drop one in a critical situation, it's not total guess work...
OK so there is one possible answer to your question... Can you think of anymore???
PS... I know MB's answer.... we should ask the guy who's winning on Jeapordy..
Been trying to pick it up Rocky, I have been looking around, I just like to read up on things and see how there done, like I state I'm no pro and dont even want to take on one like this. It's just out of curiosity, I wasnt figuring that the notch could make the diff, was just wondering if while making the notch in a tree with a back lean if this could turn to be one of the results in having it split and kick back. Thanks for the info ALL and please try to understand this is just a question not something I'm trying to go for. Thanks.
Husky372
ArboristSite Guru
you can keep your condesending attitude to yourslf there murphy becuase i never said anything to deserve it. alls i said is plain and simply if its in a field i see no need for a rope. i dont care what you say. if theres no chance of it hitting anything whats the benifit unless you want to practice or make yourself look like you know what your doing.
MasterBlaster
TreeHouse Elder
You are correct, sir. And on more than one account, I might add.
A rope is for precision placement or guaranteed pull, or at least that's the plan.
A rope is for precision placement or guaranteed pull, or at least that's the plan.
Husky372
ArboristSite Guru
mb i understand that, and i think thats great. but you can accomplish the same thing with properly placed notch, its in a field remember with nothing else around. if it was near house, wires, or other trees rope is the best bet. but in a field with nothing around it..... quess i have no imginationOriginally posted by MasterBlaster
You are correct, sir. And on more than one account, I might add.
A rope is for precision placement or guaranteed pull, or at least that's the plan.
but why you gus are setting ropes i would have the tree down safely.
MasterBlaster
TreeHouse Elder
Sure bro, that's true. It's just when you have the potential for massive liability, you need to take advantage of everything possible to insure everything goes as planned.
Setting a rope ain't no big deal.
Husky372
ArboristSite Guru
not trying to be difficult but what liabilty its in a field with nothing around it.
MasterBlaster
TreeHouse Elder
You do not need a rope to throw a tree in a clear zone.
Or a field.
Husky372
ArboristSite Guru
this is how the thread stated MB note in a field nothing cose by. others through in hazards.
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