oak tree death

[treeone]

ok , so we cut down an oak tree like this at least twice a week.

Large mature white oaks, Leaves all brown ... dried looking , black dots.. fungus looking stuff under all the leaves.

Some say its not a fungal problem. They say its from a dry year to a wet year, to back to a drought again ... three year process. Stress.. so now they are kicking the bucket because of this drought and stress.

So what are the fungal looking black dots all over the leaves.

Can anyone help here? I'll try and get some pictures for you.

Thanks .

 

[hobby climber]

treeone, hello and welcome to AS.com ! You'll find that this IS a very informative and helpful site. Hang around and post often with questions or concerns and the rest of us here will do out best to lend a hand. With out pictures of your tree,(crown, lief, trunk and root flair), its kinda hard to ID the problem, . While your waiting for others to respond to your question, check out the search feature at the top of this screen for related topic that may have been talked about in the past. Again, welcome and good luck with your quest. HC (hobby climber).

 

[Diesel JD]

Sounds like what happened to a lot of the water oaks and laurel oaks around here in the late 90s. We had one of our wettest winters/springs on record in 1998 followed by a drought in the late spring and summer of 98 and a drought practically all year in 1999. I'm not qualified to diagnose anything(not an aroborist) but I know that several differnt species of oak, specifically the shallow rooted species I just mentioned, but even the better rooted golden chestnut oaks kicked the bucket like it was going out of style during that entire cycle. Same thing the crown would turn brown and teh tree would shrivel up. Seems ike there was fungus on some of them too but it took awhile after they died before that would happen.

 

[treeseer]

. I'm not qualified to diagnose anything(not an aroborist) .

Any non-arborist can collect samples and take em to the local extension office. Most of the tree science comes from extension, and their opinions are often only as good as the size and range of the samples that they get to look at.

This arborist is often clueless, so I put leaves or whatever in a bag and take it to them. If they are clueless too, at least their guess is often better than mine. You got a great resource at UF; why not use it?

 

[Diesel JD]

Good point...we have taken stuff to DPI at Doyle Conner Center and to UF. And those folks are good. I just wnated the folks to know that I had seen a similar scenario which did seem to be drought/flood related but that I am not a pro, so to take my opinion with a grain of salt. One can pretend to be anything on the internet and I don't want to appear to be something I am not.

 

[treeclimber720]

hello, i live in central arkansas, and own a small tree care company. i have also had to remove several white and even red oaks that were doing great last year and suddenly died. the heart wood of the tree gone. i ruin each a chain on each tree from water standing in the base of the tree.

 

[Diesel JD]

You are talking about heart rot no? This is a very common way for water oaks and laurels to die in my area. I don't know if white and red oaks bear any similarity. Shallow roots? Small compound leaves either pin shaped or clubs?

 

[treeseer]

How does water dull a chain?

How does heart rot kill a tree?

 

[Tree Wizard]

Good point TS, I was wondering the same thing. I have seen many a tree that is physiologically healthy that just sucks structurally. As long as the "structure" doesn't fail - the tree lives.

The water/chainsaw thing I just don't understand.

 

[Diesel JD]

That certainly is true in my area that the heart rot itself is not what kills the laurels. By the time they have lived a normal healthy life, they all have it, and care must be used if one wishes to go up one of these trees. They just don't live very long in tree terms. 70-100 years would be a good long life. I see the logic in what you're saying...phloem and xylem are in te outer tissues not the center. As with water dulling teh chain....maybe all the abrasives, dirt and crap that come with having a tree with a cavity right in the middle are what he means. I've logged stuff right in the swamp and water doesn't in itself dull the chain.... but I wonder if it washes away teh lubricating oil..

 

[Blake22]

Hello all, my first post here, I'm no expert either but my dad, (UF grad & roommate of Doyle Conner, no joke) said dry weather, we've had alot of water oaks die like ya'll described. White oaks & reds seem to be tolerant of the dry conditions.I'm lost on the water dulling the teeth myself. I kind of think Diesel is right about all the junk in the hollow being the problem.

Oh yeah I'm not a seminole in Tally, I'm a dawg up here in Madison.

 

[JeffE]

There are a number of fungi that will take advantage of dead and dying leaves (and in some cases healthy leaves too), creating those little black dots, but in the vast majority of cases they're not a problem for the tree.

The FL state forest pathologist has the same take on much of the increased oak mortality we've been seeing: due to rapid fluctuations in soil moisture, often with rot fungi like Armillaria taking advantage of the compromised condition of the roots.

 

[treeseer]

due to rapid fluctuations in soil moisture, often with rot fungi like Armillaria taking advantage of the compromised condition of the roots.

I agree that moisture fluctuations are a stressor that may be the last straw. Bark fungus is easy enough to find, by removing the bark and some soil and looking for the signs. Shigo's Pithy Point #867:

"People who haven't dug out tree roots or dissected trees should not be allowed to talk about trees." It's fun to look for rot and its cause; detective dendro.

As far as stressors go, I suspect that moisture is not primary. Acid deposition changes the pH of the soil after it sizzles away the suberin waxy coating on the plant. Plants could handle more moisture stress a lot better if they weren't already fighting the added acidity that falls with pollution.

 

[Diesel JD]

Hmm, nice to hear some local guys with input. I should add that a lot of these oaks that I mentioned were dying in new neighborhoods. I was once told by and arborist that changing teh grade of the soil by 2" around an oak can kill it. Trust me in some of these neighborhoods a lot more than 2" of fill dirt is needed to make these "swamp lots" pass inspection and be fit for occupation. We're lucky in that we're at the top of a hill....although I have my doubts how natural it is. I haven't seen as much of this problem since the drought ended.

 

[JeffE]

"People who haven't dug out tree roots or dissected trees should not be allowed to talk about trees." It's fun to look for rot and its cause; detective dendro.

Yeah, it's great fun! If had the good fortune to tag along on house calls with the pathologist regarding this sort of oak mortality, and help dig up roots to look for mycelial felt in the roots and such. Just did an interesting tree dissection last week for an unrelated issue, I might post a thread about it once I'm sure I wouldn't be breaking Division rules by doing so .

Definitely agree that there's almost always more than one contributing factor... don't know of any data specifically looking at acid rain, but it's an interesting idea.

Diesel: those fill-over-the-root-zone scenarios are really heck on established oaks, highly likely to kill them. I really hate to see that sort of bad practice

 

[treeone]

grrrrreat post guys... thanks alot.

extension office doesnt know what it its... they "think it's the drought"