Oak Wilt and Dutch elm is getting bad

[ATH]

It would seem to me that if the disease died very quickly outside of the tree then the disease would no longer exist. It is widespread transmitted to vastly different areas.

Oh, also...it is spread through movement of logs. It will live under the bark of logs as long as there is some moisture. That is the main source of "human" spread. Good to hear you are handling those with fire! FWIW, "they" say anything under 6" or logs split into firewood by January to smaller than 4" (I know...right? that's how we all split firewood) will not host the disease into the next spring. I still like your idea of burning on site better.

 

[Capitalist]

@ATH
In the case I just dealt with, "patient zero" was clearly infected by Beatles or a non-mankind related Factor. The tree had split in a storm and had never been trimmed because it was near the edge of a forest.
The next year half a dozen others were dead or dying.

I waited to take the trees down on a non windy day and pushed it up into a pile in as large of pieces as I could to try and prevent a lot of excessive sawing while staying away from nearby trees. I then let it on fire. By the next morning it was pretty well gone.

Most of the trees I see that get it first in an area are either already weakened from bugs and/or storm damaged.

I have seen a few recently that had been trimmed and were perfectly healthy and it looked like somebody turned them off like a light switch.

I recently moved south from Kansas City to Pittsburg Kansas. I have seen some of the worst hack jobs down here on trees that I have ever seen in my life. I saw two pin oaks a couple of weeks ago that had been "Topped" which is bad enough but this was the worst hack job I've ever seen perpetrated on two trees and people think it's normal down here.

Southern culture down here does not treat trees very well.

I think the main transmission by people is just wounding trees in general allowing beetles and other bugs or possibly even birds to spread it.

 

[Capitalist]

While February may be "optimal", for everything except Oak and Elm, it really doesn't make that much of a difference what time of year you prune. Even if the weather holds, we couldn't do it all in Feb anyhow.

While winter pruning reduces disease spread, summer wounds heal more rapidly...so if disease spread isn't such a concern, maybe summer is better for pruning.

I never really considered that. With most trees I don't worry but great point on the heal time.

 

[Capitalist]

Will live in the roots for 4-5 years...This is why it is good to herbicide stumps of removed trees to try to kill the root system, but that doesn't always work - which is why the root graft trenching helps.

I think the number I heard tossed out there Wednesday was that it can move underground 40' per year. This is why it is important to act fast when trees are showing infection. If one tree is infected but not dead (still has decent amount of green leaves), it seems you can girdle or remove it before the fungus reaches down the trunk and into the roots and stop the spread.

I told the customer on the last job I did that trenching was best but he was not able to afford it. I didn't know the 40 ft idea either.

This customer was very intelligent and he called me before the forestry because he just wanted to know why his trees were dying in one area and they pretty much said everything I did and that's why he hired me.

The idea that it can travel 40 ft per year and stay alive that long underground in the stump is pretty scary. I wish he could have afforded to have me trench.

 

[ATH]

I told the customer on the last job I did that trenching was best but he was not able to afford it. I didn't know the 40 ft idea either.

This customer was very intelligent and he called me before the forestry because he just wanted to know why his trees were dying in one area and they pretty much said everything I did and that's why he hired me.

The idea that it can travel 40 ft per year and stay alive that long underground in the stump is pretty scary. I wish he could have afforded to have me trench.

what would you use to trench? Vibratory plow is really nice...leaves very little evidence it was there. A local park district has a lot of sandy soil so they had a 5' long plow blade built to trench. They problem they are facing now is the can't find a machine to rent. They asked me if I'd consider buying one and doing it on contract. I liked the idea...but decided that isn't among the next $100,000 I'm gonna spend. I had helped another guy do one with AirKnife. Really sandy soil, so it worked well, still took all day. I wouldn't want to do that in any kind of clay!

 

[Capitalist]

what would you use to trench? Vibratory plow is really nice...leaves very little evidence it was there. A local park district has a lot of sandy soil so they had a 5' long plow blade built to trench. They problem they are facing now is the can't find a machine to rent. They asked me if I'd consider buying one and doing it on contract. I liked the idea...but decided that isn't among the next $100,000 I'm gonna spend. I had helped another guy do one with AirKnife. Really sandy soil, so it worked well, still took all day. I wouldn't want to do that in any kind of clay!

I'm a poor guy. I would have rented a trencher if I had been on most ground around here. This particular property was on rock though. I would have had to have a rock saw or hammer and excavator. I would have charged a lot.

I would have charged a lot up front and I hate doing that.

 

[Capitalist]

I told the customer on the last job I did that trenching was best but he was not able to afford it. I didn't know the 40 ft idea either.

This customer was very intelligent and he called me before the forestry because he just wanted to know why his trees were dying in one area and they pretty much said everything I did and that's why he hired me.

The idea that it can travel 40 ft per year and stay alive that long underground in the stump is pretty scary. I wish he could have afforded to have me trench.

@ATH in the above quote I said that wrong!
He called the forestry before me! I got that backwards.

 

[schreib69]

Btw all my oak trims now are set for October. I needed money when work was slow but I told all of my customers that wanted oaks trimmed that they would have to wait until October. I refuse to back off of this even if it cost me my business.

Trees gave me a couple decades of income. I used to not care. They took care of me that long now it's time I gave it back.

I am so sick of seeing perfect healthy 100yr + oaks turned off like a light switch.

Five years ago I bought over 70 acres, mostly Oak forest, and built my retirement home on it here in Minnesota. Last year, terrible drought, started them all dying. This year is worse . . . Mostly Red Oaks as you folks report but the big Whites are going too. It is just a shame. My forest is disappearing around my new home. Maples are replacing the Oaks.

As I type this I see four red Oaks with brown leaves from my front porch. I am waiting to cut until October and I KNOW there are many waiting in the forest beyond. These four stand within 20 feet of a beautiful White Oak that is like the centerpiece of my backyard lawn. I noticed a few brown leaves starting up top . . . I am just sick about this.
Please advise:
-- What is the background about cleaning bars / chains with bleach and gas? Why? Is it really a fact that this stops the fungus somehow?? hard to believe.
-- Is there any way like infusion I can save a particular tree and any way I can feel more confident it will work on THAT tree? Link to educational source?
-- Is it REALLY necessary that I wait till October to take down a completely brown Oak? I am not worried about trimming causing THAT tree to die-- it is GONE! So, what is the point?

 

[ATH]

@schreib69 If the white oak shows less than 20% dieback a treatment with 20ml Alamo per inch of trunk diameter will have +/- 80% chance of success. Any sign of disease in Red oak, treatment is pointless.

Get a Forester out and start removing trees to stop the spread. It will make a big hole...but that is coming anyhow. Management tries to keep it smaller.

 

[ATH]

I'm a poor guy. I would have rented a trencher if I had been on most ground around here. This particular property was on rock though. I would have had to have a rock saw or hammer and excavator. I would have charged a lot.

I would have charged a lot up front and I hate doing that.

In rocky soil, they talk about popping stumps with an excavator... Easier to find equipment, but obviously a lot slower and messier.

 

[schreib69]

@schreib69 If the white oak shows less than 20% dieback a treatment with 20ml Alamo per inch of trunk diameter will have +/- 80% chance of success. Any sign of disease in Red oak, treatment is pointless.

Get a Forester out and start removing trees to stop the spread. It will make a big hole...but that is coming anyhow. Management tries to keep it smaller.

I am the Forester. Have removed many already. thanks for responding.

 

[treeman48507]

PS: when you remove trees, what are you doing with the wood? Chips are good. Logs? Need to be dealt with before next spring.

(no worries about too many questions - we are all here to learn! I was just at an Ohio Oak Wilt Working Group workshop on Wednesday and picked up a bunch of info - always more).

Oh, also - last I saw Dr. Juzwik has found no benefit in sanitizing tools. I would do it if I were going from an infected tree to an uninfected tree...But then again, I'm not pruning oaks during infection period so maybe not so important. The disease dies pretty quickly outside of the tree.

Ideally the logs should stay on site and be quarantine with a tarp. 1 year minimum. Longer for larger pieces.
It's true that you could possibly past infection but for the most part sanitizing has been dismissed

 

[treeman48507]

It's been a while since I've been on here but it's encouraging to see you guys concerned about Oak Wilt.
The bug that transports O/Wit does not fly above 50°, so try to set your sights on45 Fahrenheit.
The calander dates are artificial.
Preventably Propiconazole works great when used @20ml per dbh. The epicenter tree and stump should be removed after the other trees are protected. I'd give it a month if possible.
Only do the removal without any injuries to protected trees. Quarantine the logs on site under a secured tarp for aleast 1 year. Longer for bigger pieces .
I've been fighting this for years but this year is worse, I can't remember the last time I ran saw.

 

[schreib69]

It's been a while since I've been on here but it's encouraging to see you guys concerned about Oak Wilt.
The bug that transports O/Wit does not fly above 50°, so try to set your sights on45 Fahrenheit.
The calander dates are artificial.
Preventably Propiconazole works great when used @20ml per dbh. The epicenter tree and stump should be removed after the other trees are protected. I'd give it a month if possible.
Only do the removal without any injuries to protected trees. Quarantine the logs on site under a secured tarp for aleast 1 year. Longer for bigger pieces .
I've been fighting this for years but this year is worse, I can't remember the last time I ran saw.

Thanks Treeman. what units does dbh acronym stand for?
What is the tarp doing in the quarantine protocol?
quarantine distance? Can the stump and logs be moved 100 yds to storage on same site or must they be left where they fall? What about tree top? Can it be moved off somewhere for burning? (Do not own chipper.)
Suggested source for Propiconazole?
thanks.

 

[Stihl a grasshopper]

I am so sick of seeing perfect healthy 100yr + oaks turned off like a light switch.

I have seen this happening a bunch around SE Texas I wondered what it was. That and the pine beetles have been bad this year as well. Pretty sad!

 

[ATH]

Thanks Treeman. what units does dbh acronym stand for?
What is the tarp doing in the quarantine protocol?
quarantine distance? Can the stump and logs be moved 100 yds to storage on same site or must they be left where they fall? What about tree top? Can it be moved off somewhere for burning? (Do not own chipper.)
Suggested source for Propiconazole?
thanks.

DBH = diameter at breast height (defined as 54" above ground level on he uphill side of a tree)

Tarp: spores will form on the wood of oak wilt killed trees. the tarp is meant to get hot enough to kill any bugs that might get in the wood and spread spores.

Moving wood: the further you move it, the more you risk spreading the disease. Anything under 6" in diameter is unlike;y to develop a spore mat.

 

[pdqdl]

@Capitalist

...Try soaking your tools in gasoline. Easier faster and cheaper to just use old mix or old dead gas.

I will try the gas on my saws especially I don't hardly know what to do with my saddle and my ropes I wash in detergent. Thanks for the tip.
Bleach is hard on stuff

I don't think gasoline carries a fungicide label. I kinda doubt that it will have the slightest effect on the Dutch Elm pathogen, since bar oil doesn't seem to slow it down at all. Bleach is chemically reactive with most organic compounds. At it's worst, gasoline is just a strong solvent for lipids within cells. There are not too many lipid membranes in a fungus.

 

[Lightning Performance]

I don't think gasoline carries a fungicide label. I kinda doubt that it will have the slightest effect on the Dutch Elm pathogen, since bar oil doesn't seem to slow it down at all. Bleach is chemically reactive with most organic compounds. At it's worst, gasoline is just a strong solvent for lipids within cells. There are not too many lipid membranes in a fungus.

Dude... gasoline kills damn near anything alive.
Go play with your lipids ;-)

 

[AustinTexas]

Is it getting any worse in your area? I own a tree service and this year I have taken down more trees dead from Dutch elm disease and oak Wilt then I have in my entire career.

There is two that I just looked at elms I mean and they were trimmed in May by powerline clearance trimming crews and it's pretty obvious that they infected it.

I desperately am getting sick of seeing gorgeous oak trees turned off.
I looked at one here a while back and I actually did it too low I should have been about $10,000.
It was the only tree around with oak Wilt and entire neighborhood is nothing but oak trees and likewise it's pretty obvious this one was contaminated by a trimmer.

I was the fifth person to bid that job and I was the first to tell him what killed it.

I guarantee you whoever cuts that tree down is going to wind up trimming other trees down that street and it's going to be all over that place.

I'm getting freaking tired of having to wash my stuff in bleach.

I just took down eight oak wilt trees and we got the forestry involved on this job. I told them I want them to assess the job I did I'm still waiting for them to come look and give me opinion.

I'm hoping it's just because this year was so hot and dry but regardless it's getting out of control in my area.

Personally I think asplundh should have to divvy up some of their 400 billion dollars per year net, to fix this since they absolutely have no practices in place for prevention.

If you don't hear from me again it's because Asplundh had me killed. I'm going to go dig a complex of underground tunnels and ****y trap it with chainsaws and wood chippers!

Are you in Missouri as it stated in your post or Texas as per your profile?

I seen you mention 71, I'm assuming your referring to Highway 71.

I typically prune between 50 to 200 Oaks per week. We always bleach and sanitize, every job, every time before and after, and also seal off all cuts.

We've removed a lot of trees touched by utility companies and this is my pet peeve. As big tree hugging as Austin is, I've still yet to figure out why they haven't been banned by the tree huggers.

Most of the Oak Wilt we've ran across was West of Austin (Dripping Springs / Driftwood Area.)