Old school

[Jlarnard]

I learned to climb about 17 years ago. So I am old school to the bone. I have been to trade shows and watched the husky guys do the modern stuff, and even bought equipment to try to update my ways. Besides more complicated, which in my life usually means more likely to make a mistake. There is a lot more pieces that could fail. With the way I was taught the worst thing was replacing the climbing line once or twice a season.
Honestly guys, does the new ways make more money than the old ways?
Is the efficiency actually able to make my profit margin increase?
I'm not talking free climbing here, I stay tied in, and I am absolutely safe!
I am asking about $$$

 

[mikemcC]

i would really like to know too. I am only 22 years old but was taught by father who has been climbing for about 30 years, everything I know about the tree business is old school (but we are definately still safe). I am starting to get more and more into the business and would like to learn all the new stuff as well. Is it worth learning?

 

[ropensaddle]

I learned to climb about 17 years ago. So I am old school to the bone. I have been to trade shows and watched the husky guys do the modern stuff, and even bought equipment to try to update my ways. Besides more complicated, which in my life usually means more likely to make a mistake. There is a lot more pieces that could fail. With the way I was taught the worst thing was replacing the climbing line once or twice a season.
Honestly guys, does the new ways make more money than the old ways?
Is the efficiency actually able to make my profit margin increase?
I'm not talking free climbing here, I stay tied in, and I am absolutely safe!
I am asking about $$$

The dollars spent must be justified in any business and are sometimes
user specific! I still climb old school when I climb and I get more years
out of a climb rope than many do. I have bought the new saddles and
comfort related tools I will spend dollars for. I am like you in that I don't
need the inspector gadget suit to climb but will try to pick what works
for me and keeps me safe.

 

[Groundman One]

My climber is definitely old school. He climbs with a Husky 338XP, a simple seat, spurs, and 120' of robe with one carabiner on it. Nothing else. No ascenders, descenders, sidewaysers, extra double-bubble clips or speedy releasers, nothing but the basics. We get everything done.

Our other climber is a Mohawk fella, he's been using the same seat and rope and saw for years. His seat and rope are so old they look like gray rags you found at a garage sale. He's been climbing for twenty-five years and I don't think he's ever used anything other than the most basic equipment regardless of the situation. Quite something to watch him work.

I have precious little experience climbing, but a great deal working with climbers. My opinion is that there are more gadgets available than required and the people I see with bags of doodads and gizmos are leaning too much on the equipment and not enough on their capabilities. Nothing beats experience and style.

 

[murphy4trees]

I know a lot of old schoolers are pretty quick and you can get into the top of many trees faster by starting from a ladder and advancing your line, rather than taking out the throwline and missing the first three shots...

That said, there are some days I come out of the tree and wonder how anybody makes a living working old school... I was reluctant at first myself, thinking more potential for equipment failure... that is why you gotta learn the rules... using approved equipment... ie... auto locking biners that require three seperate motions to open, rated for 5000 lbs etc...
I still keep it pretty basic compared to some saddles full of gear I've seen at competitions..

Throwline, big shot, spliced eye 150' line, biner chain with microcender and french prussic, 10-12' lanyard on a french prussin tied to the top D ring, Butterfly 1 saddle, 10 oz throw bag on a keychain biner clipped to rear webbing loop on back of saddle (for weight to advance line without monkeyfist), 2 bent gate biners slid into side webbing of saddle for clipping the saw to (one on each side). Sometimes I'll keep one extra biner on saddle rated for climbing.

I keep a couple friction savers (1 homemade and 1 rope guide) and a few other gadgets in my climbing bag, also will footlock using the Kong double handle ascenders with a petzl chest ascender on screw links tied into ascender and tether... I keep some loopies and extra biners around for redirects and have a speeline kit, which rarely gets used..

For rigging I use either a shackle on a short line or a lowering block on a sling when I don't go natural crotch and have a GRCS that rarely gets used..

 

[D Mc]

J, I don't believe there is any doubt that old school can get the job done safely and simply. I am from the old school. I don't use it any more. If I was trying to climb in that method, day after day, I could not still do it. For me, that translates directly into $$$.

The evolution of the new methods are focused on energy conservation and ergonomics. You will be able to accomplish the same things you are now in "old school" with much less effort.

This is also a field that you are doing yourself a disservice if you remain static with your knowledge. You don't have to use everything new tool or technique that comes along, but it would be to your benefit to understand their pros and cons before dismissing them.

Dave

 

[capetrees]

Old school all the way with very fewextras and gadgets. Why do I need 10 tools on my belt to do 10 jobs when 2 will do the job just as nice? Do I need 3 different shaped carabiners? and with all the gizmos that are out there, ya gotta wonder sometimes if some guys are into the job to do a job and get a tree down or are they just techno geeks trying out the new gadgets? Harness and spikes, (and often not even those,) a good rigging rope and a short tether with a carabiner clip on either end to attach a saw to my belt and away I go! Some wonder why my prices are as low as they are sometimes and I tell them its because I don't pay a lot of overhead for my equipment. Flashy doesn't get the job done, skill and dedication do. The gizmos just make it look cool. Additional gizmos also mean you are putting that much more failth in them all working, sometimes one depending on the other or others. One fails and the whole system could fail and that could mean trouble for you. Keep it simple and safe.

 

[B-Edwards]

I started in trees over 20 years ago (old school) . New school is the way to go . I think some people hate change and it takes awhile to get comfortable with the new stuff. It was hard for me to get 20 something year old guys to use new stuff because they had never used it.NEW SCHOOL!

 

[clearance]

Whatever works, I like the old school, but what is that? Belt, spurs, steelcore, and one rope with a tautline? Thats old school to us,not to the old guys. An old high rigger saw my Buckingham saddle, my steel core and he laughed at me. "What do ya need that fancy stuff for, why the rope?"

"Uhh, so I can get down" - "Ha, we just rode the line back down to the yarder, all I had was a leather belt and a manilla flipline"

So, whatever you like, if it ain't broke don't fix it, but is it helps you, go for the new.

 

[RedlineIt]

I was taught to climb "closed system", tautline hitch right off the tail of my saddle tie in. I wasn't climbing full-time then, so it was a while before I first saw a split-tail system at an arborist supply store.

My first thought was, "Wait a minute, this opens my system to a potential failure if I don't clip the 'biners on properly, I mean I would have to be drunk or blinded by raccoon pi$$ for that remote possibility to happen, but there's the weak link, not sure I like this." But I bought a couple of 'biners and a six-foot split-tail with a spliced eye and the rep showed me the "new" Blake's hitch.

First time I climbed on the split-tail, I knew there was no going back! So much faster, easier to advance my rope up the tree that I even stopped bothering to throw my line so bleeding high, why waste that time when unclipping and advancing is so easy!

Then I saw another climber taking up slack one-handed. How? Micro pulley! Nice, I want one, got one. No looking back now, I bought another for my lanyard.

Now I was actually actively looking for gizmos. What is that shiny bit on the rack over there? A Pantin? What's it do? $70 bucks!!? Yes, I'll take one, please. I use it all the time, wouldn't want to be without it, footlocking is bad, bad ergos.

Then I bought a Petzl micro-cender and a twisted clevis to go on a new steelcore lanyard. I really wanted to love that thing. I mean, how cool is a machined from billet alloy, anodized block of eye-candy? It would look at home on a Boyd Coddington machine. But the first time I used it, I saw it's flaws. Clumsy on the slack takeup, at least with a steelcore, but worse yet, to release slack, I had to un-weight it, annoying. But I was sold on the gadgets, I stuck with it, stuck with it for three months. Finally I binned it and I'm back to a Prussic and pulley on my lanyard. Easier, smoother and three months too late.

So there's good and bad with gadgets, but I'm still sold on friction savers, floating false crotches, adjustable false crotches, ascenders, they all work, all have their applications in the book of climbing techniques.


RedlineIt

 

[Groundman One]

J
I am from the old school. I don't use it any more. If I was trying to climb in that method, day after day, I could not still do it.

How's that?

(I'm curious, not critical.)

 

[oldirty]

hey murph your saddle gear setup sounds like mine.

you just think there is a lot of "stuff" there because you have never had "stuff" there before. but i am telling you they call it old school for a reason. its old. i'd like to be referred to as old school in work ethic and not work related.

i'm telling you. life gets easier in the tree when you dont have to work so hard, because of the gadgets.

i went from taughtline to blakes on a splittail and now i am on the hitch climber and martin knot for my prussic. sliiick.

no thanks old school climbing technique.

especially not them ratty ass leather belts. no way.

 

[Blakesmaster]

I'm slowly working on converting to a newer climbing technique. I can read things on here and in magazines and really see how they would be beneficial but it is hard trying to implement newer techniques on the job. Why scratch your head and play with doodads when you can just do it the way you always have? Old habits die hard but I'm working my way around. My advice, buy a piece or two of gear at a time and get used to it, then add something new, and then something else, etc. They may not all work out for you but you at least learned something about the work and yourself in the process. Currently, I'm using a split tail w/ a blakes and micro pulley slack tender, a 3 in 1 lanyard , friction saver and 1 ascender for my foot on prunes. Soon to come, Pantin foot ascender, Petzl swivel, some loopty doodads for redirects and I seriously need more rigging gear. This natural crotch bs is gettin' old.

 

[D Mc]

How's that?

(I'm curious, not critical.)

I almost hate to admit this, but I have been climbing professionally for longer than a lot of the guys here have been alive. I came to a point where footlocking became impossible. So I was body thrusting everything. A few more years of that and my joints just told me that this wasn't going to work forever.

As you age your body redistributes muscle mass. What was once easy, becomes not possible. So what to do? I absolutely love climbing trees. It has never become druggery or old for me. But I had two choices. I could either learn new ways that required less energy or I could stop climbing.

Guess what I chose?

Dave

 

[Nailsbeats]

I'm an oldschool convert, no way am I going back. I like to take shots, bleed and feel the pain of wrestling the tree as much as any oldschooler, but now I just wait until I get down and stick my head in front of a branch going through the chuck 'n' duck.

 

[Slvrmple72]

I started later than a lot of you. I used the tautline for about a week and then switched to the Blakes with a split tail. The next step will be to go with the eye 2 eye with a VT. I do not have a lot of extra gizmos on my belt and I only take what I need for each job. Minimalist approach works best for me.

 

[Groundman One]

I almost hate to admit this, but I have been climbing professionally for longer than a lot of the guys here have been alive. I came to a point where footlocking became impossible. So I was body thrusting everything. A few more years of that and my joints just told me that this wasn't going to work forever.

As you age your body redistributes muscle mass. What was once easy, becomes not possible. So what to do? I absolutely love climbing trees. It has never become druggery or old for me. But I had two choices. I could either learn new ways that required less energy or I could stop climbing.

Guess what I chose?

Dave

I feel your pain, my brother. I'm a forty-four year old groundman and I can still work the young'uns into the dirt, but my aches and pains are telling me that I'm in the sunset years of playing tough guy.

Is there a "New School" for groundmen, or do we just get taken out back and shot?

 

[ropensaddle]

I feel your pain, my brother. I'm a forty-four year old groundman and I can still work the young'uns into the dirt, but my aches and pains are telling me that I'm in the sunset years of playing tough guy.

Is there a "New School" for groundmen, or do we just get taken out back and shot?

Bang! Just messing with ya I have found it makes and breaks ya some days a king some days a pawn but you will do just fine! I'm 45 and feel I have 20 more in me if I can learn to pull away from my wife's cooking!

 

[yooper]

I learned to climb about 17 years ago. So I am old school to the bone. I have been to trade shows and watched the husky guys do the modern stuff, and even bought equipment to try to update my ways. Besides more complicated, which in my life usually means more likely to make a mistake. There is a lot more pieces that could fail. With the way I was taught the worst thing was replacing the climbing line once or twice a season.
Honestly guys, does the new ways make more money than the old ways?
Is the efficiency actually able to make my profit margin increase?
I'm not talking free climbing here, I stay tied in, and I am absolutely safe!
I am asking about $$$

Old school here also. But taught by a very good teacher.Thanks Treedog! With you living in a more populated area I'm sure you have better opportunity's to learn better systems.
Hey I hope Ray Hoover didn't teach you how to climb:monkey: That was a joke.at least I hope it was!
I my self would love to learn some new systems. just don't have the time or money for schooling to do it right now. some day though I will. someday. but with what I know works for me now.

 

[ropensaddle]

Here's my 'new school' lanyard. It's an example of greatly increased functionality in climbing gear at hardly any cost.

This a very cheap set up and the snap and dog lease swivel can by used multiple times with just the inexpensive climbing rope and tress cord being replaced when worn.

The tress cord is tied right to the dee using scaffold hitches. The rope is tied to the snap using a scaffold hitch.

It's adjustable in or out using only one hand and can be adjusted out under load with one hand.

The tress cord is on the dee ring on the right of the photo. The swivel on the left side is in the photo to give a good view of the swivel that is tied in the scaffold hitches. This is about a seven foot lanyard.

Maybe it is just the thought of so many knots and hardware that could
fail that has kept me on old school. Maybe it is because I have some
bicep and like the work out I have looked over many of these
new ways I may get out the art and science book and the companion
and play sometime. I may like it if I ever tried but it may take me getting to be a little heavier in my moccasins before trying.