one-handing

[TreemanFJR]

Does anyone have a good pic of using a loop runner for holding the branch and acting as a third hand?

I did cut my finger, nearly all the way off one handing. I was ignorant, plain and simple. Everything you guys say about using two hands is true and worthy of hearing over and over again. I do use two hands religiously now.

 

[clearance]

Orclimber-Read what I said about table B limits. I dont push stuff towards the line, I wait till I am above the primary before I turn my back, like I said overhang. Interesting that you make a "hole" we cut off lots of branches below the primary first, ground to sky on a transmission job. JPS-I can handle you calling me unsafe or even a utility hack but lazy is untrue and kind of mean. You say you do it as little as possible-but you do it anyway. Kind of like do as I say not as I do.

 

[ccooperabbs]

Treeman,

If you follow the link I posted and download the document "safe working methods with top handled chainsaws", you will find the pics you requested.

 

[ORclimber]

Clearance, I understand the minimum seperation requirements. The thing that concerns me is that when your working around the lines all day Sh!t happens. Everyone gets tingled sooner or later. Having a steel core flipline or hooks only invites a better path to ground IMO. Kind of like one handing a saw makes one more vulnerable to injury. I'll quit doing that someday...maybe next week.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

JPS-I can handle you calling me unsafe or even a utility hack but lazy is untrue and kind of mean. You say you do it as little as possible-but you do it anyway. Kind of like do as I say not as I do.

What I admit is that there are a few times where it may be safer to onehand then try to find an impractical position to make the cut, or that the risk is worth the time saved in redoing your tie-in to make it safe.

Just because I'm being frank with you dooes not mean I'm being mean. I'm saying anyone who regularly onehands just to spped up the job is operating in a lazy & unsafe manner.

I'm not positive, but i think that if your forerman is requiring that you operate this way he is violating Canadian safety protocol, and could get the company in trouble.

If you safety is a culture and attitude, so is sloppy unsafe behavior. Workplace injuries is a statistical thing, which is why we talk about rolling dice when doing unsafe things.

you know that your job has some inherant risks to life and limb.
you have survived and recovered from a chainsaw injury.
If you know that a certain practice puts you at a greater risk of another injury, why would you use that practice on a day to day, or hour to hour level? How is that smart, increasing the risk to your life for productivity?

Why is your company demanding it of you?

OK I'll add in gaffing a trim is lazy too,

 

[Stumper]

The young fellah askd why it's bad.

1. no man alive can control the force of a kickback incident
2. noone, no matter how experiance can predict wher the saw will go after the cickback.
3. the clutch will help, but it still takes time to engage, and that time can be more the it takes to touch your skin.

Dang John, I didn't even know I was dead! The word you useed is control. Can I completely negate kickback forces before the saw moves? No. Control a kickback so that my body which wasn't in its path in the first place is not endangered? Yes. Climbing saws aren't that powerful. The bar tip isn't going to travel feet in my hand(s). A few inches of kickback could be dangerous if you are poorly positioned but that isn't what we are discussing. Both hands on the wheel at all times . Both hands on the saw at all times. Nice, safe rules. Needed rules for the inexperienced and for the experienced under some conditions. However, I don't drive that way every minute and I don't operate the saw that way every time. Real world. :angel:

 

[MasterBlaster]

I've controlled many a kickback, with large and small saws. I also controlled my sphincter.

 

[topnotchtree]

I think what clearance was talkin about when he said push limb away was being over and above the wire, cutting limbs, and pitching them on opposite side of wire from tree. I will NEVER climb a tree anywhere near a conductor with wirecore flip line. Clearance, you mentioned you cut away the entire shelf off the tree before you do the higher stuff. Try cutting a hole on the tree as you go up to your tie in. pitch all the overhanging and higher limbs thru the hole, then blast the shelf off on your way down. If you dont have a good hand saw, get one. I am sure you are familiar with side cutting a limb and peeling it around. Try getting into a position where you can side cut a few limbs at a time and peel them around ontop of each other, using a handsaw. Then make flush cuts using chainsaw and let limbs fall. I am not tryint to tell you how to do your job, I am just giving tips to be efficient without one handing. Where I work, one handing was against the rules but wasn't usually enforced till the past few years. Guys seem to be getting cut more and more from chainsaws. It has been a topic of safety meetings quite often. As I said in the start of this thread, I do catch myself one handing sometimes, but not nearly as much as I used to.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Dang John, I didn't even know I was dead! The word you useed is control. Can I completely negate kickback forces before the saw moves? No. Control a kickback so that my body which wasn't in its path in the first place is not endangered? Yes.

I do believe you are mistaken when you say these forces are not great, or predictable.

But the premis of the argument is that the risk is far greater onehanded then 2 handed. If you regularly operate one handed in your day to daily operations, then you are lazy and foolish, and your loved ones should give you a good talking to.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I've controlled many a kickback, with large and small saws. I also controlled my sphincter.

Youve blown through a few stopsigns and not got hit too, I'm sure. We all do it from tiem to time, but if you do it all the time your number is more likely to come up.

Tree work is what we do for a living. We do it every day. If your methods of operation assume higher risk factors unessisarly then you may not be going back to work some day.

How is it prudent to save a few seconds working in manner that puts you at a higher risk?

 

[Stumper]

How is it prudent to save a few seconds working in manner that puts you at a higher risk?

And therein lies a point of argument. Where does the higher risk lie? If it were always a matter of a few seconds I would accept the always use both hands argument more readily. Sometimes a simple one hand extension cut takes care of that one branch that would have required a swing, redirect, recrotching or all of those to get into position to use 2 hands. Sometimes getting into position to use 2 hands would require climbing on stuff that is inadequate for my weight. Is that safer? We can argue this forever. I agree that 2 hands on the saw is the best practice. I'll agree that too often we operate our saws sloppily and increase our risks. I personally have decided to not play the politically correct game. I one hand. I one hand because I deem it the wisest course in some situations. I also one hand at times just because I find it convenient and I am comfortable with the degree of control I have with one hand. Flame me , blame me, defame me but you will not shame me. People do stupid things with chainsaws. I DO stupid things with them now and then. ME onehanding MY climbing saw doesn't mean I'm being dangerous or sloppy :angel:

 

[MasterBlaster]

You ain't the lone ranger, Justin!

 

[Ny finest]

I do difficult removals almost exclusively and a I agree with Justin.I have one of the hardest jobs in the trade and I do not see myself as sloppy,careless or lazy.I've never done any real damage to myself or property.I see why it is important to make rules against itdue to rookies,uninterested people,etc.Companies have to use it as a security tool so if you get hurt one-handing its all on you.But if you're a dedicated professinal,rather intelligent,and passionate about your work as more than a job I dont see how anyone can say you're wrong for one-handing.

 

[alanarbor]

I'll say you're wrong. It seems to me you are putting the job ahead of you're own well being. You talk the talk..... from your other thread I quote;

"All I ask is a couple of things :
1Safety is no 1"

Using two hands on a chainsaw is universally recognized as a safe work practice.

Walk the walk.

You're worried about production? It's a learning curve. If you start out taught to use both hands every time, it's just how you do it. You plan your climb differently, and you plan your cuts differently. If you're changing from one-handing on a regular basis to two hand at all times, it's going to be uncomfortable, and yes, it's going to slow you down, until it becomes instinct. It's some temporary discomfort to know you're doing it right!

Taking a calculated risk is done because the results are USUALLY positive. You may get away with it 999 times out of 1000, but that 1 time is gonna cost you big. If you feel the odds are acceptable, then no one can tell you otherwise.

 

[Ny finest]

First its not like I one-hand all th tine;only with a top handle and then in awkward positions.I can't believe its such a big deal and how some people say they NEVER do it.MB posted a picture of him one handing holding on to his rope for stability.I do that and feel that its safer to get comfortable than two-hand.And you can't always retie to fix the situation.But I'm sure you disagree,right?

 

[alanarbor]

Refer to my previous post......It's in how you climb. You will learn to position yourself, and it won't take any extra effort on your part once it becomes habit. Yeah, it's easier to do it that way, becuse that how you're used to doing it. I'm not saying that relearning your habits will easy, or not be frustrating. I'm not saying that you're a lousy climber, I'm merely saying that;

1. One handing a chainsaw is not an accepted industry practice

2. It is possible to use 2 hands at all times. I work with people who do it every day, and they do difficult hazardous removals as well as any climbers I've ever seen.

 

[clearance]

People can be put into different camps. 1. People who say it is bad but do it anyways 2. People who say they never do it. 3. People who do it but are carefull. If you say its bad and insult others for doing it then you lose credibility. As far as holding your climbing line with one hand and your saw with the other the whole point of one handing is to hold the branch or push of the top with your other hand. I am always attached with 3 points, right spur, left spur and scare strap sometimes 4 points if I am also tied in with my climbing line. Pretty well planted in the tree to do my work, dont start slagging me for wearing spurs cause I am doing removals or trimming tree that have been and will be again trimmed for line clearance. Some of these trees are ok but because of where they are and what has to be done to them they will never be specimens. If I dont need to hold or push anything then I always use two hands. Couldnt imagine one handing without my spurs on, couldnt imagine climbing w/o spurs but thats just me. Bottom line here is, if you dont like it-dont do it. If you do it-be real carefull, dont want anyone saying "ha ha loser told ya!" if you cut yourself. Thanks for the input everyone.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

I am always attached with 3 points, right spur, left spur and scare strap sometimes 4 points if I am also tied in with my climbing line.

I don't know what the rules are in BC but in the US and most of the rest of the world spike contact with the tree doesn't count as attachment. They possibly count as contact. Lanyard and rope count as attachment.

If you're close enough to cut and grab you're in a good enough position to two-hand the saw. Put me in group 2...sort of. There is wording in ANSI Z133 that does allow for one-handed use. It's pretty darn rare that I use that concession. When I do, I have at least rope and lanyard, probably two lanyards and rope. Then I position myself and all gear to be well away from any posible kickback route. What I've found is that it's more work to get into that position than it is to cut it with a handsaw or two-hand the chainsaw.

Clearance, have you asked your loved ones to read this thread and make a decision for you? Any of us are capable of "poisoning the jury" with our rationalizations.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Gawddam guys, it's an advanced move that should only be used by an experienced user, and it should be kept to a MINIMUM!!!

'Nuff said!

 

[Ny finest]

alanarbor,
One handing a chainsaw is not an accepted industry practice because rookies and such would get hurt.I have been operating a saw for ten years and I know exactly how it will react.You say you can position yourself differently but sometimes you can't.
I'm not trying to be contentious;I just thinthat pros are almost required at one point in time or another.I can,t believe you think its never right or acceptable