one-ring pistons

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Marvinlee

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I had promised to provide tech reference on one ring pistons. Two of them are SAE reports. The oldest is SAE report # 840183 titled "Some Studies on Two Ring Pistons in Automobile Turbocharged Engines," by Shoichi Furuhama, a noted Japanese scholar in piston and ring research. The second is SAE paper #910435 titled ", by Furuhama and several other researchers. I have read a very recent report in a tribology (study of friction and wear) journal but did not locate it on my most recent library visit.

Several engines have used single compression rings, including the first series Caterpillar 3208 engine, the 2008 Honda 150R motocross motorcycle, the Kawasaki KX 250F, and the 2001 Honda Civic 1.5 liter lean burn engine. These engines span a range from large to small.

Note that the engines listed above are four cycle. A two-ring four cycle piston has, actually, only one compression ring, the same number now being used in some two-cycle engines. From the viewpoint of compression rings, a two-ring four cycle engine is the same as a one-ring two cycle engine.

Concern has been expressed over potentially short piston ring life in one-compression-ring pistons. A shorter ring life is conceivable. It is up to the scrupulous engine designer to ensure that a potential outcome does not become reality. Counter measures for the engine designer to consider include but are not limited to, gas nitriding, steel rings, nodular iron instead of plain cast iron material, chrome or chrome-ceramic ring coatings, more careful distribution of piston ring radial thrust forces, twisted rings (yes, truly), increased cooling fin area to compensate for the reduction of ring area for heat to pass through, improved cylinder liner coating, and closer tolerance control. The latter is more important when only one ring exists to control blow by.

My personal experience with a one-ring 5100S Dolmar has been positive to date, but it is too soon to judge ultimate engine life. In any case, engine life varies widely from one individual to the next, even of the identical design. It is only over a larger population of engines that one can form sound conclusions concerning the effects of a design change.

Considering everything, I believe that a name brand engine using a single ring should not be avoided on that account. Recall that small two-stroke engines are intended to last a relatively short time, perhaps a thousand hours or less, while industrial engines may last more than ten times as long. The EPA requires only 300 hour or less expected life for the engines' emission control, and the EPA tends to link required emission control durability to expected engine durability.

I am not an expert on ring design, and regret if my comments have created that impression. I welcome other views, contradictory to my own or not.
 
Good post. I have always read 2 rings hold compression longer and help move heat from the piston to the cylinder, that would make sense in a air cooled engine. Now I sound like sawtroll reading out of a book:sucks:
 
Wow, good post Marvin. Don't recall seeing you post much on the site but you should post more often, you seem to know your stuff.

I got a 5100 and a 7900, both fairly new and both wood eaters. The 5100 is a amazing little saw and the 7900 is too. I think the 7900 is a single ring piston as well. I have no clue how long the life of the engine is on these saws but I do know they sure put out some power, especially the 5100 for its size. I got a slew of saws, about 26 Stihls along with the 2 Dolmars and I rarely run one all the time so engne life is of no concern to me. For a one saw owner I can see where engine life may be a factor to consider though I hardly ever get asked that by a buying customer.

Post more Marvin, I like your posts, very well written and very informative too...
 
Motocross and Roadrace two-strokes have gone back and forth on the single/two ring approach. The main advantage of a single ring seems to be less loss to friction, the biggest disadvantage seeming to be limited heat transfer from the crown to the cylinder wall. If you can make a two ring engine that makes the same power as a single ring you win, if you can make a single ring engine last as long as a two ringer you've done the same...
 
If an OEM does put in a high tech single ring, you can be sure that the cheap aftermarket replacements won't have any such attributes!

In addition to the heat transfer issues, it's likely cheaper to use 2 "standard" rings than one "special ring".
 
Several engines have used single compression rings, including the first series Caterpillar 3208 engine, the 2008 Honda 150R motocross motorcycle, the Kawasaki KX 250F, and the 2001 Honda Civic 1.5 liter lean burn engine. These engines span a range from large to small.

Note that the engines listed above are four cycle. A two-ring four cycle piston has, actually, only one compression ring, the same number now being used in some two-cycle engines. From the viewpoint of compression rings, a two-ring four cycle engine is the same as a one-ring two cycle engine.

Almost every four stroke gas engine has just one compression ring. Deisls usually have two compression rings. Then you have your oil scraper ring and oil metering ring. More compression rings means longer service life. Two stokes have just compression rings.

Good post. I got confused there when you started talking about 2 ring four strokes.

I didn't know that the early 3208's used just one compression ring in the beginning. Odd.
 
Almost every four stroke gas engine has just one compression ring. Deisls usually have two compression rings. Then you have your oil scraper ring and oil metering ring. More compression rings means longer service life. Two stokes have just compression rings.

Good post. I got confused there when you started talking about 2 ring four strokes.

I didn't know that the early 3208's used just one compression ring in the beginning. Odd.

Hmmm...what engines are you speaking of? I have had dozens of different four-stroke pistons in my hands, all but one or two had three grooves...
 
I have 2 saws with 1 ring and they both are pushing well over 200psi each. No problems yet after a couple years on one and 6 months on the other one so far.
1 ring or 2 rings dont matter to me, what ever they come with, thats what they get.
 
I just picked up a single ring piston to put in my 372...... I am curious to see if I can tell any differance in performance.
I do know that single ring pistons in MX bikes do not last as long as double ringers.
 
I have 2 saws with 1 ring and they both are pushing well over 200psi each. No problems yet after a couple years on one and 6 months on the other one so far.
1 ring or 2 rings dont matter to me, what ever they come with, thats what they get.

..but... a couple of years ownership, but.. how many hours?
 
I just picked up a single ring piston to put in my 372...... I am curious to see if I can tell any differance in performance.
I do know that single ring pistons in MX bikes do not last as long as double ringers.
I believe that is the most accurate info here so far - and I believe that mine has a single ring - but I don't really care - when it is "shot", just get a new one, or a new ring...... :greenchainsaw:
 

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