Open face & hinge felling technique

[Nicholas]

Am I wrong to assume the "open face & hinge" felling technique is a safe, controlled, and practical method for felling trees. When I first learned to operate chainsaws this was the method of tree felling I was taught. The method has not failed me yet.

Problem is, the people I help cut firewood & fell trees for think the only safe way to fell a tree is to saw a giant notch out of the tree...like 1/2 to 2/3 the diameter of the tree, and use the classic angled 45*degree backcut or a standard backcut 4"-6" above the throat of the notch. Hinges? Wedges? They told me you don't need them.

These people can't figure out why every other tree falls out of control, barber chairs, or gets lodged on them. Somehow they feel the are right, and the rest of the community that fells trees professionally or fells trees for a living is wrong. All I know is to stay far, far away when they start felling trees. They don't look to make certain the area is clear hazards or people before placing the final backcut. Just cut and run, sort things out later.

I won't ever claim to know it all about tree felling, but I like to think I have a pretty good idea how things should be done safely.

Okay, I am done with my rant.

Thanks,

Nick

 

[John Ellison]

No Nickolas, I would say that the way you were taught IS a safe and controled method. There are also other methods that are valuable but it is not those of the people you're describing.
They don't even know enough to know that they don't know.:help:

Hey, did they invent the Pulaski in Pulaski?

 

[GASoline71]

Nick... keep doin' it just the way you were taught. Let the other guys cut the way they think is "right"... that way Natural Selection will eventually take over, and we will all have more oxygen available to breathe. Since they won't be usin' it anymore.

Good onya!

Gary

 

[computeruser]

Sounds like you cut with a bunch of idiots. I've seen some crazy stuff with some of the guys I used to cut with. They refused to be safe so we don't cut together anymore.

Get these guys a copy of Mr. Dent's book or Mr. Beranek's book, maybe they'll learn something.

 

[ASEMASTER]

I agree

Sounds like you cut with a bunch of idiots. I've seen some crazy stuff with some of the guys I used to cut with. They refused to be safe so we don't cut together anymore.

Get these guys a copy of Mr. Dent's book or Mr. Beranek's book, maybe they'll learn something.

give them the book as a gift and explain that you are only trying to save their lives. also making less and easyier work for them!

 

[wdchuck]

Get these guys a copy of Mr. Dent's book or Mr. Beranek's book, maybe they'll learn something.

A bit of a 'leap of faith' here, comprehension level already sounds impaired.:deadhorse: :deadhorse: :biggrinbounce2:

 

[stihl 440]

I think that the people that use the 45 Degree backcut are pretty much idots or they just don't know. Because if you think about it the tree thinks you are sawing a even bigger notch in it and will tend to want to go in the way the bigger notch is sawed. And plus their are wasting more wood that is needed. I cut my stumps as low as possible unless clearing, then if small diameter leave 2ft for the backhoe, as leverage to get the stump out. I have been following the GOL trainers for felling and bucking. This is how I cut my tree, I saw the downcut of the notch first 1/5 or 1/4 dia. of the trunk. Then I make the undercut to meet the other cut exactly. Then I bore the backcut a little before the hinge, work my way up to the hinge, make my hinge according to species and dia of tree. Then I work my way back to the strap, If I can't see my tip of my bar yet out the other side of the tree then I swing it with the spikes(using them as a focal point) till it comes out enough(i'm still watching my strap thickness yet)Then I go around to the other side of the tree and put in my bar and finish up to the hinge. Then I put in my wedges if needed then I cut the strap, then away it goes. And me away from the tree. By the way my backcut is even with bottom of notch. I use to use the 1/3 notch method and higher backcut too. Tried preety much all of the methods except the slanted backcut(never will). I liked this method best, haven't had any problems since. What do you guys cut your trees like?

 

[fishhuntcutwood]

Guys that are that are that far off are likely dangerous with saws too, just in how they handle them. Steer clear of those clowns.

 

[Nicholas]

Thank you for all the replies.

The open face and hinge technique I was taught is as follows:

1. Begin upper notch cut angling approximately 60* degrees into the tree trunk until the cut reaches 1/4 to 1/3 the diameter of the tree.

2. Begin lower notch cut angling upwards approximately 30* degrees until the cut meets the kerf from the upper notch cut.

3. Begin bore cut / plunge cut 1"-2" above the throat of the notch, and 1"-2" behind the notch throat to creat a hinge. After the saw has bored completely throught the tree, begin cutting away from the hinge until you are left with 2"-3" of hold wood.

4. Place, and pound wedges if requied.

5. After verifying the area is clear of people/hazards, cut hold wood, and retreat in a safe direction away from the falling tree.

I hope I didn't forget anything. It's getting late.

One other thing these people I was helping saw firewood for told me I was doing wrong was in regards to cutting spring poles. I was taught to cut a small notch at the bottom/compression side of the spring pole, and either make a series of small shallow cuts or one single cut to release the pressure in a controlled manner on the tension side. These people somehow think its safer to place single cut into the spring pole letting snap all at once, most of the time in their face. But, somehow I am doing it wrong.

One other person came out to help us cut firewood the other day and didn't bring a saw. So I let him use my one of 357xp's. What a mistake that was. I gave a sort of crash course on chainsaw operation. The guy swore up and down he knew how to run a saw. Come to find out he didn't know squat. Somehow guy felt it was nessassary to wind the saw up WOT no load out of cut for 3-5 seconds before starting each cut. It didn't matter if he was trying to cut a small branch or bucking up a log. Or worse yet he'd hold the saw WOT and go from cut to cut never letting the saw return to idle. Then while cutting he also felt he needed to hold the saw back and move the saw back and forth like a buck saw through the cut. The chain was razor sharp, their was no need the move the saw back and forth through the cut. That saw was just screaming for mercy. I though he was going to melt that saw down on me. I never seen such a stupidity with a chainsaw in all my life. I ended up taking the saw away and tuning extra rich so he wouldn't melt it down on me.

Thanks again,

Nick

 

[tek9tim]

Hey, did they invent the Pulaski in Pulaski?

The Pulaski was named after Ed Pulaski, a hero of the 1910 fires of Montana. his crew got entrapped and rode it out in a mineshaft.

I just cringe driving around in the woods seeing all the firewooder stumps cut like you say. Ugh. Again, natural selection.

 

[John Ellison]

Here is one of my stumps. If the wind would'nt have came up all of a sudden and that weasel had'nt started chewing on my ankle just as I was finishing the back cut, it would have probably went right where I wanted it to.

 

[Tzed250]

Game of Logging

Iwas tought the open face technique at GOL and got good enough with it i could drive stakes in the ground with a side leaner. The method has worked for me since and I feel completely confident with it. Stay away from fools with saws, they will hurt or kill you if you let them!

 

[smokechase II]

pictures

Hey Nicholas, get some photos of your buddies.

 

[fishhuntcutwood]

Here is one of my stumps. If the wind would'nt have came up all of a sudden and that weasel had'nt started chewing on my ankle just as I was finishing the back cut, it would have probably went right where I wanted it to.

That's awesaome John! I knew you were a true professional!!! :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[RiverRat2]

You are alot nicer than I am!!!!!

Thank you for all the replies.

The open face and hinge technique I was taught is as follows:

1. Begin upper notch cut angling approximately 60* degrees into the tree trunk until the cut reaches 1/4 to 1/3 the diameter of the tree.

2. Begin lower notch cut angling upwards approximately 30* degrees until the cut meets the kerf from the upper notch cut.

3. Begin bore cut / plunge cut 1"-2" above the throat of the notch, and 1"-2" behind the notch throat to creat a hinge. After the saw has bored completely throught the tree, begin cutting away from the hinge until you are left with 2"-3" of hold wood.

4. Place, and pound wedges if requied.

5. After verifying the area is clear of people/hazards, cut hold wood, and retreat in a safe direction away from the falling tree.

I hope I didn't forget anything. It's getting late.

One other thing these people I was helping saw firewood for told me I was doing wrong was in regards to cutting spring poles. I was taught to cut a small notch at the bottom/compression side of the spring pole, and either make a series of small shallow cuts or one single cut to release the pressure in a controlled manner on the tension side. These people somehow think its safer to place single cut into the spring pole letting snap all at once, most of the time in their face. But, somehow I am doing it wrong.

One other person came out to help us cut firewood the other day and didn't bring a saw. So I let him use my one of 357xp's. What a mistake that was. I gave a sort of crash course on chainsaw operation. The guy swore up and down he knew how to run a saw. Come to find out he didn't know squat. Somehow guy felt it was nessassary to wind the saw up WOT no load out of cut for 3-5 seconds before starting each cut. It didn't matter if he was trying to cut a small branch or bucking up a log. Or worse yet he'd hold the saw WOT and go from cut to cut never letting the saw return to idle. Then while cutting he also felt he needed to hold the saw back and move the saw back and forth like a buck saw through the cut. The chain was razor sharp, their was no need the move the saw back and forth through the cut. That saw was just screaming for mercy. I though he was going to melt that saw down on me. I never seen such a stupidity with a chainsaw in all my life. I ended up taking the saw away and tuning extra rich so he wouldn't melt it down on me.

Thanks again,

Nick

He would have not gotten one of my saws back!!!!!!!

 

[Sprig]

Here is one of my stumps. If the wind would'nt have came up all of a sudden and that weasel had'nt started chewing on my ankle just as I was finishing the back cut, it would have probably went right where I wanted it to.

OOoooooo nice!
Lord I hope you are joking, that is just sooooo wrong lookin', GAH!
:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:
As for the clowns described in Nick's first post, run away! Far away! Buy em the book as suggested, but as also mentioned it may be pizzin' in the wind, but at least you'd have tried.
My felling technique is pretty straight forward, 45-60deg top face, 20-30deg lower, no more that 1/3 in, check kerf for directionof intended fall, do backcut flat and slightly above the horizontal notch to hinge (adding wedge (s) as needed), scamper away at first sign of fall. Haven't had a chance to do the plunge cut/strap method but it seems to offer good control (esp for hinge thickness) and when I get a chance to work with someone experienced with it I'd like to give it a go just because. Needless to say safety first above all and a few moments of planning and consideration can save much grief, as stated many times in other posts regarding this, your brain is one of the most important pieces of PPE you will ever use (or not).
Here is the OSHA preamble for face and backcuts, whys and whatfers> http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/logging/sections/preamble/felling_preamble.html

 

[smokechase II]

I can out-cut John Ellison

I submit my stumps as proof positive.

Now that I've put John in his place. So there.

Match these TreeSlingr, Clearance and Fishhuntcutwood.

 

[fishhuntcutwood]

Match these TreeSlingr, Clearance and Fishhuntcutwood.

Sorry, can't! I'm always smart enough to not take pictures of my messed up trees and ugly face cuts!!

That way.....it never happened...... :Eye: :Eye:

:hmm3grin2orange:

 

[Lakeside53]

I submit my stumps as proof positive.

Now that I've put John in his place. So there.

Match these TreeSlingr, Clearance and Fishhuntcutwood.

They sure look familiar to me:hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[windthrown]

Darwin and Murphy be with us always...

Murphy's laws will catch up to your giant notch and 45 degree back cut buddies there. You might ask them why they waste time with a back cut when they could just knotch the damn things 100%??? Seems like that wood be easier...

I wood also advise that you not accelerate natural selection by loaning them your saws. This will also help you preserve your saws, and avoid any liability that may happen as a result of them using their advanced felling techniques and killing themselves in the process.

I found this site to be simple and helpful with diagraming what can happen with the wrong type of cutting. It also has simple and easy to follow methods for dropping leaners. It is brought to you by our neighbors to the north in Manitoba who understand the meaning of KISS. I dunno about you, but I find that the typical and long verbage on the OSHA sites are really rediculous...

http://www.gov.mb.ca/labour/safety/treefelling.html