Opinions on fireplace insert

[Rich M]

if they can fit you in, aprox. $1,800 for a state of the art custom insert VS paying $3,000-$4,000 for a stock insert of simular size.

$3-$4k includes delivery/install/ss reline/tax etc. The C310 insert is around 2k. I like the idea of a cook top for power failures too. Thanks for all the help.

 

[laynes69]

Not to step on any toes, But I have a Hotblast Wood Furnace, Around 20 years old with a forced draft kit installed on a thermostat. I don't get any smoke out of the chimney only on start up. Its ducted in series with my propane furnace which all of the air in the furnace goes through the wood furnace. Produces a hell of alot of heat with a few small pieces of wood. Since its in series, just sounds like the gas furnace kicking on. Anything will burn pretty efficient if you have good burning habits. Don't restrict all of the oxygen to the fire, burn your fire hot, and Use seasoned wood. Especially the newer stoves and such don't like wet green wood, Plus trying to burn green wood you waste energy trying to get the wood up to combustible temperatures. So its what you make of it, and how your burnig habits are.

 

[Rspike]

Not to step on any toes, But I have a Hotblast Wood Furnace, Around 20 years old with a forced draft kit installed on a thermostat. I don't get any smoke out of the chimney only on start up. Its ducted in series with my propane furnace which all of the air in the furnace goes through the wood furnace. Produces a hell of alot of heat with a few small pieces of wood. Since its in series, just sounds like the gas furnace kicking on. Anything will burn pretty efficient if you have good burning habits. Don't restrict all of the oxygen to the fire, burn your fire hot, and Use seasoned wood. Especially the newer stoves and such don't like wet green wood, Plus trying to burn green wood you waste energy trying to get the wood up to combustible temperatures. So its what you make of it, and how your burnig habits are.

How long of burn time do you get out of your wood fernace ? I have seen some of these run and do put out a lot of heat but dont normally see any that will burn only a few logs for up to 10-12 hours of heat .I had a friend that went from the wood fernace to a free standing modern EPA stove and it ended up saving him fro burning 8 cords a year to 3.5 cords to heat the same house . I see a lot of sales on them but dont see too many people brag or talk about them . What input you have would be great .

 

[laynes69]

Since the forced draft was installed it was reduced down to 6 to 8 max hours. I fill it and burn it hot at around 9:00 to 9:30 pm, and damper it by 10:00 I wake up about 5:00 am and its got a good hot coal bed. Through out the day, My wife can burn about 5 pieces of wood, split around 4 to 5 inches in diameter and produce enough heat to go from 8am to 2pm. Everytime I have had to sweep the chimney it was clean,all winter. I had no way of putting in a epa free standing stove, my house is 2500 Square feet, 10 foot ceilings, over 150 years old. It heats the basement because its in there, the first floor, and the second floor. Upstairs we have 5 bedrooms. We started burning wood in late august, early september, and ended in late march, early april, and burned around 6 cords of wood. I cant complain, but I tied mine in series. It keeps the house around 76 all winter.

 

[Rspike]

Since the forced draft was installed it was reduced down to 6 to 8 max hours. I fill it and burn it hot at around 9:00 to 9:30 pm, and damper it by 10:00 I wake up about 5:00 am and its got a good hot coal bed. Through out the day, My wife can burn about 5 pieces of wood, split around 4 to 5 inches in diameter and produce enough heat to go from 8am to 2pm. Everytime I have had to sweep the chimney it was clean,all winter. I had no way of putting in a epa free standing stove, my house is 2500 Square feet, 10 foot ceilings, over 150 years old. It heats the basement because its in there, the first floor, and the second floor. Upstairs we have 5 bedrooms. We started burning wood in late august, early september, and ended in late march, early april, and burned around 6 cords of wood. I cant complain, but I tied mine in series. It keeps the house around 76 all winter.

Good information . Your numbers dont look too bad for the age and size of your house. A lot of the time its just the opposite and its the house that dont have room for a wood furnace. I rented an older home (100+ years old ) when we moved from one state to another until we found a house to buy and it had a 1932 wood furnace in the basement ......... 13+ truck loads of wood in 1 year to heat that bastard . With a newer stove and better insulation I'm sure thing would of been a lot different .

 

[046]

no relining of chimney needed for JUCA because it's an open burn design. it's also open floor, retaining usage of existing firebrick, damper, gas fire starter and external ashe dump.

there's no sales tax and installation was a breeze. only thing I did was cut-off damper control arm and slide JUCA in. perfect fit! JUCA comes fully assembled. you specify blower on right or left side.

I did have to fab a new damper control rod. but that was pretty simple.

my JUCA firebox size is aprox. 12 cubic feet VS typical 3 cubic feet.

exterior of JUCA doesn't heat up much, due to heat exchanger design delivering heat to blower instead.

wood usage will veri by location/house size. there's a wood usage calculator on JUCA's site that factors all that in.

since I've not used JUCA a full season yet. can't give actual numbers. JUCA's calculator indicates 2.5 cords seasoned oak for 2,500 sf, NE Okla.

So I'm planning on 3.5 cords based upon 1/2 season usage last winter, hopefully it will be less.

I should have ducts installed by then, that will increase heat distribution. my house is one level ranch design.

$3-$4k includes delivery/install/ss reline/tax etc. The C310 insert is around 2k. I like the idea of a cook top for power failures too. Thanks for all the help.

 

[RaisedByWolves]

my JUCA firebox size is aprox. 12 cubic feet VS typical 3 cubic feet.

WHAT???????????


No way, 3 cubic feet is anything but typical.


I cant be sure just from the pics, but I dont think that is even an EPA stove.


Looks allmost like a heatilator.


Any idea how many BTU?

 

[laynes69]

One more thing I forgot to add about my woodfurnace, It will burn soft (ohio) Coal or Anthracite Coal. On those harsh winter nights, If I think I need ALOT of heat in the house, -10 temps, Ill load about 50 to 75 pounds of hard coal, and it will burn HOT for at least 12 to 14 hours. So I have some lump coal and I keep around 400 pounds of hard coal around just in case I need it. You just never know.

 

[RaisedByWolves]

Three cubic feet is a large insert. The JUCA is much larger. I doubt you will take the time to read their web site but it is the best you will find on the web.

Even squirrel cage fans make too much noise for me. As they age they get louder and louder.

Well, if you have so thoroughly read their website mabye you can tell us their stoves operating principal? And is it an EPA rated stove? What were the EPA test results? Why does their stove operate in an entierly different method than allmost every EPA stove?


And most importantly will your local township give you a permit to install one? Will your homeowners cover you with it installed?



I would have these answers for my self but it seems the manufacturer cant sum this in a few pages. Why over 100 pages?

Is there something they dont want me to know?

 

[Rich M]

First thing I found on the Juca site is a link titled "Bad News", it states they no longer manufacture their products.

 

[laynes69]

EPA Certified means they have spent Millions of Dollars in research and testing. A do it yourself person with the knowledge could build one to pass the certification, but it costs alot too much money. Tons of woodburners are modified for a cleaner burn. There are alot of people that can burn wood with little to no smoke, and burn efficiently. Of course things that affect them are enough oxygen, high burning temperatures, complex baffles, and so on. Some EPA wood stoves can burn very poorly if they use green wood, cut down the draft too much. Alot rides on the operator. I do believe EPA Standards are so the big boys can dip their hands in the money jar.

 

[RaisedByWolves]

I read, but I aint readin no 100 pages:help:


They state that their stove isint much different than an open fireplace and therefore dosent need an EPA rating.

I cant be sure just from the pics, but I dont think that is an EPA stove.


Looks allmost like a heatilator.


Any idea how many BTU?

I simply asked two questions (neither directed to you) and you jumped, Why I dont know.

 

[laynes69]

I agree with you Raised By Wolves, I was on there a while back. I read alot about these stoves, and dont understand them. I dont see how they can burn as good as they say, with it being like an open fireplace. It would have to be more complicated inside.

 

[046]

yep JUCA passes EPA, barely see smoke when operating..

think of it this way... regular fireplaces have been operating for hundreds of years. that's because most fireplaces are hot enough to reach a complete burn. JUCA operates the same way.

I forget the spec's to my JUCA (calculator on JUCA site), but when cranking full blast. living room gets way too hot to be in. I've got to open all doors to cool down room. opening up draft also helps cool things down. this speeds up smoke up chimney.

in normal operation, you control rate smoke goes up chimney. you want max smoke contact time with heat exchanger surface, without smoke backing up into room.

carbon monoxide can kill, a CO detector always sits on mantle and bedroom.

airtight wood stoves control burn by reducing air to fire. this results in an incomplete burn. that's why catalytic converters are used by some. newer/better technology airtights gain a complete burn by controlling flow patterns to complete burn process. these later designs are excellent.

you control burn-time in JUCA by size of logs used. only the surface burns. this reduces amount of splitting needed.

JUCA's design is clearly better than anything I'm aware of. only catch is getting one....

when you look at how complex the construction process with 1/4in steel plate. one understands why it's hard to duplicate.

note how raised leg design allows smoke to go under and around back side of insert.

WHAT???????????
No way, 3 cubic feet is anything but typical.

I cant be sure just from the pics, but I dont think that is even an EPA stove.

Looks allmost like a heatilator.

Any idea how many BTU?

 

[smiley]

Off brand insert advice needed

I picked this insert up 3 or 4 yrs ago for hauling it away. In spite of it's rusty appearance now, it appears to have had almost no use and the new owner of the house it was in, installed a pellet insert. I was scared off from installing it by the horror stories of creosoted chimneys and houses burning down. While browsing on this site, I saw the JUCA insert and read their website. According to them, the horror stories are because of the airtight inserts. This unit is not an airtight and has no name on it, but the design is similar to the JUCA, with the jacket surrounding the firebox, but with the tubes vertical instead of horizontal.
Over at hearth.com they say no inserts without ss chimney connection.
I'd appreciate advice from anyone with experience with these type units. Especially the safety aspect.
Thanks,
Smiley
PS
I can't seem to bring the photo up when clicking attached images. If it's not working, let me know and I'll repost the photo

 

[curdy]

Check local stove shops and talk to the owner. Ask them if they can call you when they replace a wood insert for someone. Its not rare for somebody to feel the need to move on to using a gas insert (either because of age or lack of desire to burn wood) and have their wood insert removed. This is what I did. Picked up a like new Regency insert for $150 less than 25 minutes from my house. The guy even refinished it for me.

 

[046]

non-air tight inserts like JUCA require no liners because of minimal amount of creosote created. this is purely due to high operating temps.

air tight wood stove/inserts require stainless liners due to fire hazards created by large amounts of creosote generated. the person that posted his cat was working as he was removing large amounts of creosote from his chimney.

when starting up JUCA smokes like a normal chiminey. but after JUCA heats up to normal operating temps. hardly smokes at all.

I picked this insert up 3 or 4 yrs ago for hauling it away. In spite of it's rusty appearance now, it appears to have had almost no use and the new owner of the house it was in, installed a pellet insert. I was scared off from installing it by the horror stories of creosoted chimneys and houses burning down. While browsing on this site, I saw the JUCA insert and read their website. According to them, the horror stories are because of the airtight inserts. This unit is not an airtight and has no name on it, but the design is similar to the JUCA, with the jacket surrounding the firebox, but with the tubes vertical instead of horizontal.
Over at hearth.com they say no inserts without ss chimney connection.
I'd appreciate advice from anyone with experience with these type units. Especially the safety aspect.
Thanks,
Smiley
PS
I can't seem to bring the photo up when clicking attached images. If it's not working, let me know and I'll repost the photo

 

[allthegross]

no relining of chimney needed for JUCA because it's an open burn design. it's also open floor, retaining usage of existing firebrick, damper, gas fire starter and external ashe dump.

there's no sales tax and installation was a breeze. only thing I did was cut-off damper control arm and slide JUCA in. perfect fit! JUCA comes fully assembled. you specify blower on right or left side.

I did have to fab a new damper control rod. but that was pretty simple.

my JUCA firebox size is aprox. 12 cubic feet VS typical 3 cubic feet.

exterior of JUCA doesn't heat up much, due to heat exchanger design delivering heat to blower instead.

wood usage will veri by location/house size. there's a wood usage calculator on JUCA's site that factors all that in.

since I've not used JUCA a full season yet. can't give actual numbers. JUCA's calculator indicates 2.5 cords seasoned oak for 2,500 sf, NE Okla.

So I'm planning on 3.5 cords based upon 1/2 season usage last winter, hopefully it will be less.

I should have ducts installed by then, that will increase heat distribution. my house is one level ranch design.

Juka looks like a huge unit but would seem very inefficient. any idea on your effeciency rating. the problem i see is that you are sending the air you paid to heat back up your chimney by not having xternal combustion air. the unit im heating with is completely sealed using external combustion air. i only get a small amount of smoke out of my chimney only when restocking. zero smoke when at operating temp and i usually keep the insert at about 400 to 450 and could let it get hotter if needed but find that seems to be my best operating temp. so far i have only hooked up one of the xtra zones to the basement but have the capability of hooking up two.

juka? is it epa rated

 

[allthegross]

should also mention

i just cleaned my chimney after burning at least four to five cord since the last cleaning and some of the wood was not as dry as it could have been and filled about 1/4 of a one gallon bucket with dust and creosote. i think that is pretty good but will start to clean it a little more regularly. i probably keep my fire a little hotter than most but heck in not to worried about wood consumption. if i keep it going 24/7 i burn 5 cord. much better than the 2000 gallons of oil i used to consume

 

[allthegross]

r u serious

EPA Certified means they have spent Millions of Dollars in research and testing. A do it yourself person with the knowledge could build one to pass the certification, but it costs alot too much money. Tons of woodburners are modified for a cleaner burn. There are alot of people that can burn wood with little to no smoke, and burn efficiently. Of course things that affect them are enough oxygen, high burning temperatures, complex baffles, and so on. Some EPA wood stoves can burn very poorly if they use green wood, cut down the draft too much. Alot rides on the operator. I do believe EPA Standards are so the big boys can dip their hands in the money jar.

and i thought epa standerds ment they produce less partical emissions and xtract more heat from the unit. as far as a lack of oxygen dont they have a adjustment that will go from letting way to much oxygen to letting zero oxygen in....your choice...im glad you guys got me straightened out thats why newcomers like me go to as