Opinions on thin climbing lines.

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Tom Dunlap said:
Stay away from sticky Velocity.
Tom I like my velocity (still sticky despite two washings) on the rare occasions I tie a Vt, which it holds just fine (maybe I'm tying the knot "wrong"?). It is way too sticky for the tlh :heart: which I still use a majority of the time.

I like 10 mm mountaineering ropes for handling, lightness, and knot-holding. Their intolerance of abrasion is a drawback tho. TD it sounds like Dark and I are in a world of trouble; why don't you come east and larn us a thing or three? We are obviously in need....

Dark I don't buy the strapless-is-safer theory; sounds like the seatbelts-kill-cuz you-can't get out of trouble theory. :rolleyes: If you are fearing that your strap will get caught and tear your head off you are definitely thinking too much.

I think strapless works quite nicely on girls' summer dresses :angel: , but never on brain buckets.
 
Beauty Dark, I just hate stuff around my neck/throat, like turtleneck sweaters, ties, gold chains. I don't think a chinstrap would rip your head right off but it wouldn't be nice and I will never find out.
 
A guy I worked with this summer was constantly losing his hard hat, doing ground work. He was looking at my helmet and asking about how much it cost. I suggested he put a velcro chin strap on his hat, and the next day he had a home made chin strap. It really worked great. He could tighten it up for the rough work and remove it completely for the raking.
I guess if you are paranoid about strangulation, you could put a coating of contact cement on both your forehead and helmet headband.
 
Lost his hard as a groundsman repeatedly...hmmmm...next groundsman please.
 
clearance said:
Lost his hard as a groundsman repeatedly...hmmmm...next groundsman please.


Exactly how tight is your headband???? :dizzy:
Really. You have the face screen, ear muffs, big dorky plastic hat, and you try to bust a$$ to do task and your hat doesn't come off???
Maybe it has to do with head shape. DO you have a huge bulbous protrusion on the top of your head?
 
You guys with your pretty boy rockclimbing hats just don't get it do ya? Check out the Stihl U.S. website and look up protective apparel, helmet systems. That is what I wear except it is Husky, same thing. Do you see a chinstrap, no logger would wear a chinstrap to hang a block, no treeguy here would wear one unless he was forced to. They do not "fall" off, guys run over logs, climb trees whatever, and they stay on. What are those rock hats like in the driving rain anyways?
 
Clearance,

Why do you always get so backed up every time someone suggests an accepted practice that you don't care for? Let go of the name calling would ya?

Would I be a pretty boy if I had my Pacific hardhat? It's made from Kevlar and has a chin strap but looks like your hardhat. the best thing is that it gives me much more protection though.

The buckles on the chin straps are made to break away at a certain load. There is some accepted specification for that too. This is an industrial rating not just a sport rating.

Go back a generation and listen to the chatter...

All of the arguements about better head protection would be heard against wearing ANY protection. Now we have head gear that is more likely to keep the grey matter inside the cranium, why not use it?

ROPES...

Ever since Fly came out I've paid attention to how the smaller diameter lines have been accepted and used. A very general observation in that time is that the sticky Velocity is a favorite of some people but there are more that don't like it. Most arbos have grown used to ropes that are a bit slick right off the spool and then they get a bit tacky from fuzz and dirt. At that time, the handling characteristics flat line. The chatter that I hear about the sticky coating is that it is different. Someone posted that it gets real gummy when it gets wet. Yuch...

Samson is making a rope with the same construction but no coating. So far, I haven't heard or read any feedback.
 
Mike c'mon. When I am working the muffs are on, the screen is down. If I have to talk to a customer or whiner (thankfully I am in the bush now) I put the screen up and the muffs off, but the hat isn't going to fall of just talking to someone. When I am not working I take my hardhat off. Why can't you believe me, I only wear a belt if I am wearing my cowboy boots, its there for the look of the buckle on it, not to hold up my pants. And Treeco, you are supposed to wear hardhat when working at all times. I was chipping a big branch into an old v-8 chuck & duck, the truck was parked downhill. I pushed it I walked towards and beside the chipper. Part of the branch hit me in the side of the head on the earmuffs that were down of course. It rattled me pretty good and I got a black eye even though it hit nowhere near my eye. And further more Mike, my huge, bulbous protusion is somewhere lower but this is a family show, and its for women only.
h
 
clearance said:
(thankfully I am in the bush now) h
An arborist who reaches out to the side, sometimes upside down, to make cuts, absolutely needs a chin strap. A tree cutter who uses spikes does not lean out or down, so a chinstrap is less critical.
 
I climbed in dorky loggers hardhats with no chin strap for several years, and they suck. We didn't have much problems with hardhats coming off during climbs, but I always looked at it as a blessing when it "slipped" off and I watched it fall to the ground. "Headache." They're hot and cumbersome.

I finally spent the money on a Petzl and I love it. I can hardly tell its there. I never climb without it now.
 
But back to the point....

I use 1/2" rope and don't have any complaints about it. I appreciate having the diameter to grip because it seems like it would reduce hand stress. I've never touched a piece of smaller line, so my theory isn't based on much. Do you climbers who use 11mm lines wear grip enhancing gloves? I'll wear sticky gloves in the winter and can tell that its MUCH easier on the hands.

Regarding hitches. I still use a distel, but really want to try the VT.
 
this is entertaining ....love it ... im ok with a break away chin strap maybe give it a try .... i also love the way my gri gri quickly slides through a new 10 mill or 10 .5 slick line .....never mind trying me to try the distel again or the split tail im over it hehe dark
 
treeseer said:
An arborist who reaches out to the side, sometimes upside down, to make cuts, absolutely needs a chin strap.
That was going to be my contribution to the side-rail topic going on here. As well, I think that one side of the chin-strap affixed, the other with a good line of velcro solves the problem of helmet fall-off, and makes the on/off a one-handed task.

Kentucky asks about grippy gloves. It's really hard to dispute the benefits which goes far beyond just the gripping of a rope. You'll note a lot of traditional-conventional, that's the way I've always done it, if it ain't broke don't fix it guys have embraced the grippys. Their complaints about wearing gloves often come from experiences with gloves other than grippys (which I would have to agree with). The stickys overcome the major complaint, which is loss of dexterity.

Darkstar has opened up to the possibility of mechanical devices and obviously has embraced SRT and the lighter, faster lines. Never hurts to expand your horizons. Good on you.

Someone mentioned rock climbing lines not standing up to abrasion very well. True, that, and they're generally more expensive than 11 mm arbo lines. I'm unsure about being able to terminate an eye with conventional splices in a rock rope. Rock climbers, for the most part, don't put their ropes through the rigors of the average treeguy. Most don't work their ropes all day long, all week long, week after week, although they'd like to, but most rock climbers don't get paid to do what they love. We do. That's why our ropes are constructed differently. They take splices. They stand up to our excessive demands.

Before the recent advent of 11 mm lines in our industry, our choices in 11 mm were the hard, stiff static lines (zipline) favored in the caving circles, or the soft, dynamic kernmantles of the rock circles. The rope industries stepped up and created, especially for us, this new family of lines. Progressive climbers will embrace having the new options, traditionalists will badmouth what they have to offer without really ever putting the line through extensive climbing. If they don't like it right of the bat, it doesn't get used much and they have nothing good to say. Don't make a decision to try an 11 mm based on something like that. The price of really knowing is the cost of the rope and the time you spend with it.
 
KentuckySawyer said:
Do you climbers who use 11mm lines wear grip enhancing gloves?
Seldom, only when the weather is bad or the tree is scratchy or sticky or dirty. I like the knit gloves with the black dots; they retain dexterity while protecting.

Just looked at the new Z133.1 ANSI's on this site: http://on-line-seminars.com/pb/wp_5fd28170.html?0.1388202852486422. Glad to see that they allow ladder-climbing without tie-in, and 7/16" ropes. Very common sense.
 
[[[nice tree machine awesome ]]] tree seer ...wow i was chatting with a line man who performed a service drop for us the other day ... and this is for a major utility ... he had recently pulled a 40 hour shift during aweful weather .... also he mentioned many many 24 hour shifts ... i said hey thats not ansi.... he just laughed and said naw it aint ..... he was psyched though as he was after 8 years doing service drops and hanging transformers ... said hed put in his time now and loved this eaiser work but come a a storm he would have to work the long shifts ....ansi ???you tell me dark
 
i said hey thats not ansi....

What part of ANSI isn't being followed? I'm not familiar with any part of Z133 that talks about hours of service. Would you please let me know. Maybe there is another ANSI reg that you're referring to.

During extreme situations OSHA will ease up on the hours of service but those apply to drivers only as far as I know, not labor.
 
Tom Dunlap said:
i said hey thats not ansi....

What part of ANSI isn't being followed? I'm not familiar with any part of Z133 that talks about hours of service. Would you please let me know. Maybe there is another ANSI reg that you're referring to.

During extreme situations OSHA will ease up on the hours of service but those apply to drivers only as far as I know, not labor.


Thats right and most utilities have federal pardons that when the utility declares an emergency the hours of service for drivers goes right out the window. I was on the safety and health committee for Local 369 here in Boston for three years and this was something we fought for when the new driving hours came out. We got the pardon AND our overtime storm hours back.
 
oh ok i read it wrong im not that trained with ansi YET i figure 40 hours awake straight shift is in direct oppisition of their rule stating ' no work in adverse conditions..... anyhow 40 hours no sleep is not right ... for a guy working out of a bucket truck with heavy equipment .... what im hearing is ansi rules [[[everyday ]]]but if the ???? hits the fan ... no rules ....
 
Storm Work and Emergency Conditions

Line clearance shall not be performed during adverse weather conditions. Line-clearance arborists working after a storm shall be trained in the special hazards associated with this type of work. Electrical system owners/operators shall be notified of work commencing. this is what i read so far dark ?
 
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