Opinions Please... Pine Removal

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BlackenedTimber

ArboristSite Operative
Joined
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New York/Oklahoma, depending on the day...
I had to bid this tree for removal a few days ago. Its about 4-4.5 DBH and 50-55 feet tall. The cemetery wants it out because the root system is starting to push up tombstones and they are worried if a limb should fall, it would decimate one of the stones below.

I apologize for the pics, they are form the cell. The digicam seems to have grown legs and walked away.

cem1.jpg


cem2.jpg


cem3.jpg


In the 2nd pic, you will see a double-wide headstone (My cemetery terminology isn't up to par...) the leader on the far left is about 20 inches in diameter, and the leader to the right of the first leader is about 18 inches in diameter. The whole tree is loaded with big wood.

I gave a fair price for the removal. I am not worried about the removal, as a combination of limb-walking and porty should make this one pretty easy.

My biggest issue is this: I am in Oklahoma at the moment. Most of my gear is in NY. I have a few saws, climbing and rigging gear, and a pickup here. I feel I can do the job with that equipment no prob. However, I know I could work a lot faster if I rent a bucket from an electrical contractor in the next town over (55-ft Hi-Ranger on a tandem axle Intl) but I am not sure if I want to build the cost into the quote, as this is a small town cemetery and the board has made it very clear that they are on a limited budget. I would love to have a crane on this job but that would price me out of the market, and although a crane would make things much easier, I am not sure if it's absolutely necessary.

To be clear, my quote is to get it on the ground. The groundskeeper has the headache of actually disposing of the resulting mess. I tried to explain that I could easily price in the chipping and hauling of the limbs and spar, but again, price is an issue.

Here's where you guys come in: What do you think?
 
Only useful advice I can give is it looks like it would be a fun tree to do and maybe one day (in the very distant future) one of the residents whos headstones its pushing over may be able to thank you
 
I would think if they are worried about that then take em all down. To me the targets don't seem that bad.Its not like someone is going to get hurt anymore than they allready are. Is it wrong to think that if a stone gets crushed that it can't just be either fixed or replaced without to much greivance? Don't get me wrong, I have TD'd trees in a graveyard but those trees had obvious problems. That seems like too nice a tree.
Seems kinda improper to TD that one, it don't look that bad. I would think they could send someone out to right the leaning stones though.
 
Dan,

I said the same thing. Structurally, the tree is sound. There are no issues, no deadwood, nothing. Its a beautiful pine, which I don't say often.

They want it out. Period. There is one other guy around here who cuts trees, and he is a hack. He is actually the guy who does the maintenance at the cemetery. He was explicitly told by the cemetery board (from what I was told by one of the members) that he is not allowed to bid the tree, as they know for a fact that he can't handle it. That leaves me.

I suggested righting the stones and leaving the tree alone, but the powers that be want it gone.

We talked at length about the possibility of removing the headstones before taking the tree down. I am not all that worried about busting a stone as every piece is going to be lowered with 3/4" stable braid, nice and slow.

My issue is how much time I want to tie up in this job versus what the cemetery is willing to pay. I know I can cut the job in half with a bucket, but I am looking at an additional 300 bucks for the bucket. The 300 bucks is peanuts to me compared to the increased production on this tree, but it's a deal-breaker for the cemetery as they can't afford it. I am already priced lower than I would like to be given the economic climate and the sparsity of work in this area.

It's looking like I'm going to be climbing this tree, and that's just fine. Like Stihl-O said, it's gonna be hella-fun. I have driven by the cemetery about 10 times since I bid the job to look the tree over again. I really can't wait to climb it. The neighbors must think I'm some kinda creep just driving around the cemetery aimlessly.
 
I would move a few of the closer headstones just to make it easier to get the pieces on the ground. Looks like fun. Better to move a stone than have to replace one. It would save all a headache.
 
That's a lot of tree to just "put on the ground". Where you gonna put it? On top of the headstones? Cut it up, drag it, roll it, and carry it to a little clearing? What's your projected time for doing this job? You with two guys would probably spend a whole day rigging each piece down, cutting it up and moving it out of your way. ( At least that's what it looks like to me from the pics. ) What are you billing per man hour? Even at a dirt cheap 50 bucks you're gonna cost $1500 for a full day. Even if you had a bucket, you still gotta find room for that #### on the ground and it'll be a good long day as well. I say rent a crane. You can get a 40 ton here in NY for 3 hours for a mere $450. No moving wood, no cutting into pieces to manhandle. Pick it and plop it wherever there's room. Bring in a good guy to unhook chokers and your in and out in a few hours. I'd bid it at a grand, half for the crane and half for you. Bang it out in the morning and be on your porch with a Coors Light by noon.
 
Not sure how you can save THAT much time with the bucket. If several stones can be moved, I would think that tree could be quite easily roped down and left lay right there for the hack to piece up and take away. If you can't move stones, hack will undoubtedly break some and you will get blamed. Crane would be by far the easiest, and provided there is room for the crane to get close enough, and also a spot to stage the large picks, that would be the route I would choose. It will leave the area around removed tree looking pristine and all the mess the hack makes will be elsewhere.
 
Looks like you could flop the whole tree towards the camera where you were gonna set up the crane? Any stray stones could have a little box of 2x4's built over them or...again....be removed.
 
That's a lot of tree to just "put on the ground". Where you gonna put it? On top of the headstones? Cut it up, drag it, roll it, and carry it to a little clearing? What's your projected time for doing this job? You with two guys would probably spend a whole day rigging each piece down, cutting it up and moving it out of your way. ( At least that's what it looks like to me from the pics. ) What are you billing per man hour? Even at a dirt cheap 50 bucks you're gonna cost $1500 for a full day. Even if you had a bucket, you still gotta find room for that #### on the ground and it'll be a good long day as well. I say rent a crane. You can get a 40 ton here in NY for 3 hours for a mere $450. No moving wood, no cutting into pieces to manhandle. Pick it and plop it wherever there's room. Bring in a good guy to unhook chokers and your in and out in a few hours. I'd bid it at a grand, half for the crane and half for you. Bang it out in the morning and be on your porch with a Coors Light by noon.

I hate when they tell you how they want to make it cheaper for them, it doesn't really work. Best to have the chipper right there.
 
I hate when they tell you how they want to make it cheaper for them, it doesn't really work. Best to have the chipper right there.

No #### bro. I'm pretty much done with no-hauls myself. Such a mess. You always end up looking like a hack to the neighbors and the HO will inevitably get frustrated trying to clean up your mess. It's unsafe working around all that tangle to boot. At minimum I always try to get them to let us chip.
 
Looks like you could flop the whole tree towards the camera where you were gonna set up the crane? Any stray stones could have a little box of 2x4's built over them or...again....be removed.


I agree, looks like you can drop that puppy pretty easily. But hard to tell from pics. If you have to piece it out then do so. Move some of the stones if you can and have one man on the ground to cut and move it out of the way as it comes down.

Good luck!
 
At the back of the cemetery is a huge brush pile from Mr. Hack's previous "maintenance" of the facility. The cemetery board people came up with this: The idea is that while I am in the tree, with my men on the ground roping and bucking out the larger pieces, Mr. Hack will be there with his illegals and a tractor with forks that the cemetery owns to haul off the brush and wood as it is cut and sent to the ground. Mr. Hack and his merry band of illegal marauders are already on the payroll, so it's saves them money... I assume that's the reasoning anyway.

All and all, I am not really comfortable working like that. It's a tough situation, because they need me to get it down, and I need them to get paid. This is rural Oklahoma, tree care is not exactly a top priority around here, though I am building this end of the biz every day.

In an ideal situation, I would have a crane and lower everything either to a waiting chipper or the big wood to a waiting trailer. It would take no time at all. However, the cemetery is broke. I guess not enough people have died here lately.

As far as the old notch and drop technique, there are obstructions from the camera's angle as well. I thought about that too. The spread of the limbs is about 60 feet across, and some of the limbs are quite big. If they hit a stone, goodbye stone. And for the record, breaking headstones just seems like bad juju to me, I'd like to avoid it if possible.

I have this bid at just over a $1000 for myself and 2 groundies for a day of climbing. Mr. Hack handles everything else. Thus the issue of doing the project the ideal way versus the cheap way. Also, it should be noted, I gave them 2 quotes: One to just get it on the ground, and another for the complete removal- chipper, hauling, etc. They went with the first one because their plan is to have their maintenance people handle all of the cleanup.

I guess at this point I really don't care how we get it down as long as they pay me when the tree is on the ground. I am sure I will end up staying on site to make sure Mr. Hack and his doods get the site cleaned up and straightened out. I am sure me and my guys will end up with rakes in our hands. I don't want the site to look like a war zone when we leave.
 
A thousand bucks sounds reasonable for that tree for a cut and leave. Just be careful of the stones and everyone should make out.

I did one in a cemetery up around Sallisaw a few years back. Some of the stones were just small stone posts with numbers on them. The groundskeeper told me that those were gravestones of slaves... Kind of creeped me out.
 
I'd just climb it and lower the limbs down whole on the rope, butt tie them and break them over, shouldn't be to much trouble and shouldn't take but a few hours either...

I'd be careful about dropping heavy wood on the graves though..
 
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Hey Tree, now that you mention it, there are a bunch of small stones with numbers on them... I was wondering what those were about. Creepy aint the word.

The "Hanging" Tree is a block up the road from here. My Gramma told me they used to go down there in a buckboard wagon and watch the hangings as kids. Then they loaded up the bodies, hauled em a block, and dropped em in a fresh hole.

The "Hanging" tree is still standing... I doubt anyone will ever take it out.

Skeeves me out.
 
Is it wrong to think that if a stone gets crushed that it can't just be either fixed or replaced without to much greivance?

You'd be surprised. People are SERIOUS about the graves of their family. You even chip off a piece of a gravestone, you are going to have a lawsuit. (Experienced it.)

That's a lot of tree to just "put on the ground". Where you gonna put it? On top of the headstones? Cut it up, drag it, roll it, and carry it to a little clearing? What's your projected time for doing this job? You with two guys would probably spend a whole day rigging each piece down, cutting it up and moving it out of your way. ( At least that's what it looks like to me from the pics. ) What are you billing per man hour? Even at a dirt cheap 50 bucks you're gonna cost $1500 for a full day. Even if you had a bucket, you still gotta find room for that #### on the ground and it'll be a good long day as well. I say rent a crane. You can get a 40 ton here in NY for 3 hours for a mere $450. No moving wood, no cutting into pieces to manhandle. Pick it and plop it wherever there's room. Bring in a good guy to unhook chokers and your in and out in a few hours. I'd bid it at a grand, half for the crane and half for you. Bang it out in the morning and be on your porch with a Coors Light by noon.

Same thought running through my mind.
 
Yup, that's them. Really small stones with just a number on them.

When I was a young teenager me and my cousins used to go to an old cemetery where there was a Union soldier buried and hang out at night. It was in the middle of nowhere in the country. The place was supposedly haunted (not that I believe in such things :)). Someone would always get left behind as everyone piled in the car, took off and left them for about a half hour... It was a pretty long half hour the time I got left. :cry:
 
Same thought running through my mind.

Maybe you guys have turned me into a crane queen too but I was just thinking numbers. lol You bring in two guys for a ten hour day you're out just as much money as a crane for three. Don't know 'bout everyone else but I'd rather take home the same profit for three hours work than ten.
 

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