Oregon 551462 Centering Adjustment -- Is there one?

[heyduke]

For example.... MY grinder set forward 15 degrees:

Now MY grinder set back 15 degrees:

You can see that adjustment only moves the vice closer and farther away from the back of the grinder regardless of vice angle, NOT push the top plate farther into or away from the side of the wheel.


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drd-

thanks for the pictures. i can see your problem now. maybe "self-centering" really means "ain't-centering." if you decide to keep the grinder you can use a trick that i use for evening top plates. figure out the thread pitch of the machine screw that positions the chain stop. it could be that the pitch is 1.5mm which would mean one 360 degree turn would put your cutter exactly where you want it. if it is something other than 1.5mm a little work with a calculator will give you the number of degrees you need to turn it. translate that into hours on a clock face. after a few chains it will become "automatic." i use that technique to advance my chain stop by .1mm's. by the way, the reason the side scale is marked in degrees is because it is intended to let you "twist" the cutter face, the same as tilting the file vertically. most chisel chains call for that additional angle but many operators ignore it.

 

[blades]

Forward and back on vise just allows centering of wheel on tooth or a little more clearance on the tie strap if you offset from center slightly. I do not know how it could affect any angles as the head and vise stay in the same planes in relation ship to each other. As the wheel wears down the front back movement of the vise compensates for the reduced dia. of the wheel as far as center position of the tooth wheel relationship.Rotation of the head or vise is all I see as far as angles changing. Tipping of the vise fore and aft provides clearance for the tie strap doesn't change head /vise angle relationship. Maybe I am too thick headed to notice something though.

 

[heyduke]

Forward and back on vise just allows centering of wheel on tooth or a little more clearance on the tie strap if you offset from center slightly. I do not know how it could affect any angles as the head and vise stay in the same planes in relation ship to each other. As the wheel wears down the front back movement of the vise compensates for the reduced dia. of the wheel as far as center position of the tooth wheel relationship.Rotation of the head or vise is all I see as far as angles changing. Tipping of the vise fore and aft provides clearance for the tie strap doesn't change head /vise angle relationship. Maybe I am too thick headed to notice something though.

i think it is intended to place the cutter on a different part of the radiused edge of the wheel rather than directly under arbor. when i learned to operate a grinder many summers ago, i was taught to move the vise in or out (depending on the side of the chain that was being ground) by 5 or 10 degrees. the effect was to grind the outer edge of the cutter to a different angle than the tip. hope that makes sense. its the same as tilting your file as per oregon specs. i think most guys with oregon 511a's just ignore this because its such a bother to tip the vise, but it's easy if you have the sliding vise like the 511ax.

 

[blades]

Boy I must be dense- the head travels down a straight plane there is no arc to left or right from that plane except for the slight radius of the wheel in contact with side of the tooth which would effect the radius at the bottom of the gullet. It still would not change the angle of the under side of the top plate nor the side as we are for the most part working off the side of the wheel and not across the face of same. Nor does it change the front back angel of the top plate of the tooth. The analogy to a file is flawed because we are not changing out the plane of travel of the wheel during the distance of the grind. There is no cam in the system to affect the head travel causing it to traverse different planes of attack angle in it's vertical movement. If I set the head to 0 and the vise to 0 and side the vise back and forth there is no change except for depth of grind based on the radius of the face of the wheel. Same with tilting the vise and then moving the assembly . I just can't picture it at all and I have a shop full of grinders with a dozen more adjustments than what is available on these units and cams that that cause variable transitions in the angles of attack. Must be some bad chemicals in the water here, or not enough JD in my system.

 

[Doktor D]

i think it is intended to place the cutter on a different part of the radiused edge of the wheel rather than directly under arbor. when i learned to operate a grinder many summers ago, i was taught to move the vise in or out (depending on the side of the chain that was being ground) by 5 or 10 degrees. the effect was to grind the outer edge of the cutter to a different angle than the tip. hope that makes sense. its the same as tilting your file as per oregon specs. i think most guys with oregon 511a's just ignore this because its such a bother to tip the vise, but it's easy if you have the sliding vise like the 511ax.

That's exactly what that adjustment is intended for according to the manual. And I'm glad the pictures helped clear up what I was saying, I should have started off with some pictures in the first post.

Even though the snippet from a 511A manual is not from the 511AX manual, I do believe I read in a thread on here that the 511AX is also capable of this, just not outlined in the owners manual. It should also have a screw opposite of the clamping lever that can be adjusted in and out to calibrate it's "self centering" ability if it's out of whack from the factory.

However, I don't think this adjustment exists on this hydraulic model because that is where the hydraulic line and piston is located. So it seems as though it's either good to go as is out of the box or you're out of luck lol...


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[Doktor D]

Pictures of the hydraulic assist vise for those who are interested and haven't seen pictures of it before

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[heyduke]

Boy I must be dense- the head travels down a straight plane there is no arc to left or right from that plane except for the slight radius of the wheel in contact with side of the tooth which would effect the radius at the bottom of the gullet. It still would not change the angle of the under side of the top plate nor the side as we are for the most part working off the side of the wheel and not across the face of same. Nor does it change the front back angel of the top plate of the tooth. The analogy to a file is flawed because we are not changing out the plane of travel of the wheel during the distance of the grind. There is no cam in the system to affect the head travel causing it to traverse different planes of attack angle in it's vertical movement. If I set the head to 0 and the vise to 0 and side the vise back and forth there is no change except for depth of grind based on the radius of the face of the wheel. Same with tilting the vise and then moving the assembly . I just can't picture it at all and I have a shop full of grinders with a dozen more adjustments than what is available on these units and cams that that cause variable transitions in the angles of attack. Must be some bad chemicals in the water here, or not enough JD in my system.

the angle adjustment doesn't do anything significant to the gullets or sides and it won't work on the to plate if the grinding wheel is so low that the top plate edge is cut by the side of the wheel.and really its not that important unless you're anal enuff to use the tilting vise on a 511a, which i don't. never the less, i'm pretty sure that the backward/forward sliding adjustment on tecomec's premium grinders are intended to allow the skilled sharpener to accomplish the same thing as tilting his file as specified by oregon. my old one was a stihl branded tecomec and was quite expensive, like maybe $600 20 years ago. it's still sharpening 15 or 20 chains every sunday night back in northern california. sits on top of the kegulator.

 

[heyduke]

That's exactly what that adjustment is intended for according to the manual. And I'm glad the pictures helped clear up what I was saying, I should have started off with some pictures in the first post.

Even though the snippet from a 511A manual is not from the 511AX manual, I do believe I read in a thread on here that the 511AX is also capable of this, just not outlined in the owners manual. It should also have a screw opposite of the clamping lever that can be adjusted in and out to calibrate it's "self centering" ability if it's out of whack from the factory.

However, I don't think this adjustment exists on this hydraulic model because that is where the hydraulic line and piston is located. So it seems as though it's either good to go as is out of the box or you're out of luck lol...


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i'd have to look at the 511ax before i bought one. from the pictures in baileys it looks like it has the same vise as the hydraulic assisted model and also claims to be "self-centering," which sounds like someone tyring to sell a fire-proof pinto. without the ability to center the vise on a 511ax i would rather have a 511a. you need to be able to compensate for wheel wear. baileys has a sale on the maxx grinders at present but i'd want to try one out before i took the plunge.

 

[blades]

511ax vise moves back and forth to compensate for diameter reduction of wheel as it wears. It is nothing new as my ancient Foley has the same function. If you do not like tipping the vise, moving the assembly back and forth can give you some clearance so as to not grind into the tie strap as long as you do not go too far so as to miss either end of the top plate.
List price on a 511AX ain't no slouch either in the $600 mark as well

 

[Doktor D]

I'm totally agreeing with you there... Too many bells and whistles and overlooking the more simple functions... Not to mention it drives me crazy the only way to close the vise is to lower the wheel...

As for the chain, it's a section of 91PX... Most of our customers are just homeowner consumers...


I really do think I'll "downgrade" to the oregon 511AX or 511A... I'm just not liking anything at all about this hydraulic assist... It's been mentioned before, but the chain movement during the automatic clamping is disgusting... I should post a video if anyone is interested


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[Doktor D]

Looks like I responded to a post that isn't there anymore... lol...

 

[Doktor D]

If anyone wants pictures or any questions answered about this unit while I still have it, let me know. My distributor is willing to exchange it for any oregon grinder we want. I'm going to be looking at the 511A or 511AX


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[Philbert]

List price on a 511AX ain't no slouch either in the $600 mark as well

They sell closer to $400 and as low as $320 on eBay.

I have the 511A and use the screw and nut on the back of the vise to center the chain. This changes with wheel wear.

I also use a procedure to check even cutter lengths while sharpening each loop, that should work with any grinder: I found that if the cutters on one side ended up shorter, it was usually the Left side (for me). So I grind all of those first.

Then I grind one cutter on the Right side, and hold one of the Left cutters up to it back-to-back, without removing the chain from the vise. This is very easy to do and requires no micrometers, or calipers, or split hairs. I adjust the positioning dog/screw a little, if needed, and grind the rest of the Right cutters.

Philbert

 

[Doktor D]

Thanks for chiming in here, Philbert. Many of the threads/posts I have been reading up on have you as a strong contributor.

I'm thinking to "downgrade" to your 511A grinder as it seems its the only grinder capable of manually "centering the chain" for equal grinds of the left and right top cutters.

As for the retail, I can tell you I can get a brand new 511A for much less than $400 as a distributor, so I will be considering it very seriously.

 

[heyduke]

I'm totally agreeing with you there... Too many bells and whistles and overlooking the more simple functions... Not to mention it drives me crazy the only way to close the vise is to lower the wheel...

As for the chain, it's a section of 91PX... Most of our customers are just homeowner consumers...


I really do think I'll "downgrade" to the oregon 511AX or 511A... I'm just not liking anything at all about this hydraulic assist... It's been mentioned before, but the chain movement during the automatic clamping is disgusting... I should post a video if anyone is interested


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yeah, it just occurred to me. you need the vise to be tight on the drive lengths to check your chain stop. not having a "gear shift lever" would be a problem.

 

[Doktor D]

For sure... I'm going to scan and upload the entire manual here for all to view since it's had to find the actual manual online.


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[heyduke]

They sell closer to $400 and as low as $320 on eBay.

I have the 511A and use the screw and nut on the back of the vise to center the chain. This changes with wheel wear.

I also use a procedure to check even cutter lengths while sharpening each loop, that should work with any grinder: I found that if the cutters on one side ended up shorter, it was usually the Left side (for me). So I grind all of those first.

Then I grind one cutter on the Right side, and hold one of the Left cutters up to it back-to-back, without removing the chain from the vise. This is very easy to do and requires no micrometers, or calipers, or split hairs. I adjust the positioning dog/screw a little, if needed, and grind the rest of the Right cutters.

Philbert

good idea for comparing top plate length. i think stihl sells a chain guage with a scale to measure top plates and a slot for depth guages. i use a vernier caliper or a digital caliper but try not to get obsessed. ive seen a chain work fine with 1mm or more difference.

 

[Philbert]

I can get a brand new 511A for much less than $400 as a distributor, . . .

I understand that the 511A is NLA, unless you find some old stock. The 510 is similar, but without the light, and without the 10° 'down angle' option.

Wish I had more personal experience with the hydraulic and 511AX grinder to share.

My cutter length comparison check should work with the hyd grinder, if you like everything else about it. Just figure out which side has cutters coming out smaller, and start with that one.

good idea for comparing top plate length.

Sometimes 'low tech' is best!

Philbert

 

[lambs]

Philbert, I like your low tech idea. I've just been using the Oregon template that comes with the grinder. It's plastic, but has markings on it for cutter length, and also has proper wheel contours on it. Never quite figured out how the depth gauge part of it is used though.

 

[Doktor D]

Before I send this model back, I'm going to play around with the nuts and bolts I see in the rear of the vise... Here is the diagram in the manual...

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