oversized wood?

[treeman82]

I'm putting together an estimate for a few larger sugar maples (30"DBH+) where the homeowner wants to keep the wood in order to save money... said something about giving / selling it to the neighbor. I know it's a waste of time to put this bid together, but it's something I have to do. All of the trees are accessable for a machine / log truck... so IMO it's better to just get rid of the big pieces than to cut them up and attempt to move them. How do you guys handle the larger wood on jobs... on paper?

 

[BC WetCoast]

If the HO wants to keep the wood, then he gets the wood, where it lies. If he wants it in a specific spot, then build the time to move it into the price. But you might want to tell him that it will be about the same price to move it to the neighbour's yard than to put it on a truck.

If he wan'ts it bucked into firewood, build that time into your bid. Tell him the wood will be moved enough to make it convenient for the groundies doing the bucking.

 

[treemandan]

Do what you can for your customer. I find it way easier to take the wood rather than cut it into firewood on their lawn for obvious reasons. And if I have to move it to another location on the property its just the same if I have to take it away if not harder.

 

[Slvrmple72]

Break it down in Cost vs. labor. Less work cutting, moving, and processing the wood means less cost to the homeowner as opposed to cutting it up into moveable chunks, moving it across the lawn, and stacking it neatly.

This is probably one of my biggest gripes about treework and non-treeworkers complete lack of understanding about the work involved. We are shooting for quick and efficient and they are thinking that we use the crane to move one little branch at a time! I mean that must be the only way to explain it costing so much right?! Don't even get me started with the whole "value" of the pile of wood that they call firewood when we are taking the whole tree. Okay I am done.

 

[The Lawn Shark]

Break it down in Cost vs. labor. Less work cutting, moving, and processing the wood means less cost to the homeowner as opposed to cutting it up into moveable chunks, moving it across the lawn, and stacking it neatly.

This is probably one of my biggest gripes about treework and non-treeworkers complete lack of understanding about the work involved. We are shooting for quick and efficient and they are thinking that we use the crane to move one little branch at a time! I mean that must be the only way to explain it costing so much right?! Don't even get me started with the whole "value" of the pile of wood that they call firewood when we are taking the whole tree. Okay I am done.

Well stated!

 

[Bearcreek]

Well said. I always say firewood isn't worth a rats ass. It's the labor that went into making a tree into firewood that people are paying for.

 

[tree md]

Be careful with those kind of deals. I have had two situations in the past two months where the neighbor was going to keep the big wood then when they saw how much it actually was they backed out. Both times I ended up charging a haul off fee.

I tell them I can price it anyway they want. If they want me to drop it and leave it lay that's the cheapest route. I tell them I can also put it on the ground and cut it up for a little more. I can stack it for a little more. If they want me to haul it to the neighbor's house no problem but it is still going to cost for time and labor. If I can leave wood it still saves me money in gas by not having to haul it.

Just tell him that you're still going to have to charge for time and labor to move the wood and make sure you have your bases covered by letting him know there will be a haul off fee if the neighbor backs out. Write up different estimates for different scenarios and have him choose which option he wants.

Edit: Oh yeah, I always tell them that I give firewood away (which is the truth). I don't make my money cutting, hauling or selling firewood and I let them know that.

 

[treeman82]

I had a job a couple of years ago where the neighbor was supposed to take ALL of the wood from a 3' DBH sugar maple... so we started cutting everything up when the owner came out and changed her mind... I want all the big wood removed. A log truck would have made fast work of it, but not after the logs had been cut up to firewood length.

 

[newsawtooth]

I usually try very hard to talk them out of keeping the wood, chips or over thinking the process. They typically underestimate the amount of material and the labor involved in moving it. Similarly customers that call to have me chip and haul a tree they cut down think the quote should be very low because they did the hard part by felling it. Getting it on the ground is usually significantly easier than processing and hauling it. If you could move log lengths with a skid steer for him to cut, it may be worth it. If he wants you to cut it the price should only reflect a discount of dump fees if you have them. And I'd add some more for raking saw chips, which is a special brand of misery for me.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I had a job a couple of years ago where the neighbor was supposed to take ALL of the wood from a 3' DBH sugar maple... so we started cutting everything up when the owner came out and changed her mind... I want all the big wood removed. A log truck would have made fast work of it, but not after the logs had been cut up to firewood length.

Anyone who has one this work has had this experiance, you learn to have your stock respoces to the situation. "have you handled that muh wood before, it' a lot of work" "if we have toi come back it will cost more than if I did it right away"

That all said, there are so many people looking for wood that it is easy to get rid of anything these days. Someone knows a guy with a boiler who will pick it up for cheap if the word gets out.

If you bid felling or "get it on the ground" then you need to specify " no cleanup, any change of order will be charged a labor rate of $XXX per crew hour". I've seen a number of messes that had to be cleaned up at the original removal bid to get payment; Gog awful messes at that.

 

[tree MDS]

I rarely leave our customers with wood that big.

"Remove larger, less manageable wood" works for me.. must be the mds difference.

 

[JCONN]

I agree it needs to be written up as a leave all or what ever the scenario calls for. I did work for a guy who had 4 large black walnuts at 3 different properties, of course looking for the best price he knew a guy that wanted the wood for wood working. I quoted the trees to be dropped and wood to be left were it fell, especially the one that shut down half a parking lot for 2 weeks while the guy cleaned it up. In the end of the contract I wrote in a cost of $50.00 per man hour to clean up any left over mess, knowing that it was going to be a little crap that wouldn't be worth trying to feed a chipper. In the end like I told the owner it would have been cheaper for him to have us do the whole job, he payed more and had a mess at his business and other properties for a month.

 

[Bearcreek]

I rarely leave our customers with wood that big.

"Remove larger, less manageable wood" works for me.. must be the mds difference.

This would leave to much room for interpretation for me. Larger, less manageable wood to one person is not the same as it is to another. We end up leaving the wood on over half the jobs we do. There are a lot of people that burn firewood around here and it's easy to get rid of. I always specify if the person wants the wood left as it falls or cut to firewood length and charge accordingly. I always say firewood length, not just firewood because I had one person expect me to cut and split it because I said firewood size!

 

[fishercat]

be careful!

I'm putting together an estimate for a few larger sugar maples (30"DBH+) where the homeowner wants to keep the wood in order to save money... said something about giving / selling it to the neighbor. I know it's a waste of time to put this bid together, but it's something I have to do. All of the trees are accessable for a machine / log truck... so IMO it's better to just get rid of the big pieces than to cut them up and attempt to move them. How do you guys handle the larger wood on jobs... on paper?

they always pull that crap here thinking they will get the price lower.when it over,the whining begins.

"can you cut those smaller?"

"I can't move those!"

"I don't have a saw or I don't have a saw big enough to cut those."

like the extra fuel and labor is free once the tree is down.

make sure anything additional is covered in your price.put it in writing!

they will give you grief before you get your money!

 

[fishercat]

amen!

If the HO wants to keep the wood, then he gets the wood, where it lies. If he wants it in a specific spot, then build the time to move it into the price. But you might want to tell him that it will be about the same price to move it to the neighbour's yard than to put it on a truck.

If he wan'ts it bucked into firewood, build that time into your bid. Tell him the wood will be moved enough to make it convenient for the groundies doing the bucking.

I just went through this with a customer.she wanted to sell the wood but there Stihl couldn't cut it.being nice i agreed to cut it smaller.

wound up ruining almost $100 worth of chain.she is getting billed for it.she just doesn't know it yet.

 

[tree MDS]

This would leave to much room for interpretation for me. Larger, less manageable wood to one person is not the same as it is to another. We end up leaving the wood on over half the jobs we do. There are a lot of people that burn firewood around here and it's easy to get rid of. I always specify if the person wants the wood left as it falls or cut to firewood length and charge accordingly. I always say firewood length, not just firewood because I had one person expect me to cut and split it because I said firewood size!

This is mostly with the huge stuff I'm talking about. Wood that you know aint ever gonna get split, because we would have problems with it ourselves.

I use it as a selling feature, and it makes us look good to not leave the HO with that crap.. also avoids you leaving a bad taste in their mouth when they do try and deal with it.

I like to think my customers hired right when we leave.

 

[mic687]

One of my personal favorites is can you cut it down to a size I can drop myself. I always say yep for the price I just gave you because the cost is not in the two minutes it takes me to drop that spar, it is in the work over and right next to your house to get it down to a managable spar.

 

[Blakesmaster]

This is mostly with the huge stuff I'm talking about. Wood that you know aint ever gonna get split, because we would have problems with it ourselves.

I use it as a selling feature, and it makes us look good to not leave the HO with that crap.. also avoids you leaving a bad taste in their mouth when they do try and deal with it.

I like to think my customers hired right when we leave.

Yup. I actually have fun talking them into letting me take the big stuff. THIS IS ALL DONE AT THE TIME OF THE QUOTE! Not that I want to deal with that #### but convincing them that they don't want to makes it appear that I really care about them as a person and will generally sell the job. Occasionally you get some good ol boys that appear they can handle the wood themselves and in those cases I make the offer to cut the big stuff into 16 inch LENGTHS for them. Once again, at the time of the bid this is done. Maybe I'll noodle a few pieces in half when we're done, maybe not, depends how much they beat me up on the bid or if they brought out drinks...basically, if I like them or not.

 

[treeseer]

why not call in a portable wood mill guy to appraise the wood for making timber?

 

[tree MDS]

why not call in a portable wood mill guy to appraise the wood for making timber?

Because I highly doubt that that figures into a competitive bid very well.. heck, its hard enough to get things done on time as it is, without all that fuss, fussing about..