Persimmon, I think

[abbott295]

A co-worker and I were talking the other day, and he mentioned that when he was growing up, there was a way of predicting how the winter was going to be by the shapes of the seeds in the persimmons. I didn't get all the details since we didn't have any persimmons handy. We work for a homebuilder and were at a subdivision we are 99.9% finished with. When I went back my current worksite, just in the early stages, I looked around on the side of the street we are using for parking where about four houses have been removed, but yards are still there, and there was a persimmon tree. Quite certain of that, but the fruit under it do not look like persimmons as I know them. This was a yard tree, so I am wondering if there is a variety that, like Bradford pear, does not produce normal fruit, to not make a mess in the yard?

Pictures:

 

[Bubster]

That looks like black gum to me. Some call it sour wood

 

[Be Stihl]

Not sure what that is, but there is a persimmon tree close to the house. I just cut apart two seeds a few days ago and the white part inside looks like a spoon on both. Supposed to mean shoveling snow this winter.

 

[esean]

Yep, that's black gum, Nyssa sylvatica. Similar leaves to persimmon, but lighter bark and distinct branching structure.

 

[Lightning Performance]

Our persimmon trees have deeper bark fishers and the dark color as mentioned above. They look almost like they survived a fire on the base area.

The fruity we have looks more like tiny hard plums and not like gum berries.

Persimmons hang not a top fruiting growth.

 

[abbott295]

Okay, y'all have convinced me that this is most likely black gum, black tupelo, sour gum, not persimmon.

I had written a response (but forgot to post it) to Bubster saying that I know another tree as sourwood, Oxydendrum arboreum, and that the leaves are very similar. I have to add another one, this black gum, to these two that I have a hard time telling apart when I only have a branch or a seedling to look at. I know I have both sourwood and persimmon on my property; maybe I have all three. I need to learn to tell them apart.

Thanks for the education.

 

[Bubster]

Okay, y'all have convinced me that this is most likely black gum, black tupelo, sour gum, not persimmon.

I had written a response (but forgot to post it) to Bubster saying that I know another tree as sourwood, Oxydendrum arboreum, and that the leaves are very similar. I have to add another one, this black gum, to these two that I have a hard time telling apart when I only have a branch or a seedling to look at. I know I have both sourwood and persimmon on my property; maybe I have all three. I need to learn to tell them apart.

Thanks for the education.

One way to tell black gum is to cut it down and block it up. If you can't bust the blocks with 2 tons of dynamite, you have black gum.

 

[esean]

Sourwood has longer leaves than black gum or persimmon, and has very distinctive flowers. Taste the leaves if you're uncertain, sourwood is usually sour.

 

[abbott295]

This is not my tree to cut down and see how it splits. I just have not learned to tell these three apart just by leaves and twigs. When there is fruit visible on them, it is easy. With sourwood, then flower structure identifies it.

On my property, I have both a persimmon and a sourwood within 30 feet of each other, but the leaves and twigs are well off the ground and there are other trees that also work to hide them from view, so I can’t get twigs side by side to compare and study them. I have seedlings and saplings near them and in other places, but I don’t know which they are. I don’t know of other persimmons on the property, not having found fruit anywhere else, but there are other sourwood trees.

 

[dboyd351]

persimmons have male and female trees
only the females bear fruit, so a male persimmon will not have fruit to help identify it