Pink weeping cherry 'stopped' growing !

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co-dependent is even far from the difference between grass and trees.

They are completely different except for their color and how they process sugar.

I know they have some things in common but they just compete, thats it. Walk in a forest vs walking through brush or a field. There is a reason in nature they more often than not they just dont grow together.

It is only a "natural" setting in urban environments when we manipulate the situation. I tell customers all the time the best growing conditions for a tree are when the grass is removed out past the drip line. Think about the soil horizons and how different the growing habits are with and without grass. Grass sucks nitrogen from the soil, so we have to replace it much faster than if there is a good organic layer ripe for the picking under a tree.

Too many times people think that putting down a plastic ring a few feet from the bottom of the tree is going to do much good. I think this is because people have a lot more contact with landscapers and not enough with an Arborist. The only it IS good for is to keep those mowers and weed wackers away from the trunk. Shallow roots are good but they are usually very shallow because they have to be. Shallow roots make trees weak in the long run.

Think about a tree that has no competition from grass, most tree absorbing roots should be a few inches below the surface. This horizon has a decent amount of moisture which benefits fungus, bacteria, and the macrobiotics that feed on organic material breaking it down for trees to use.

When roots are too shallow they dry out, lack symbiotic fungi, and have to work harder to get what the tree needs.

You have to look natural to get good results. You have to look at the woods and three or four inches of decaying matter in the duff layer which feeds the roots down below.

It is usually just a matter of what people prize more and the collective "expert" advise they receive on a regular basis. Most people think watering daily is the best way to get healthy plants when really watering once or twice a week is the better way to get deep (3-4 inches) root systems.

Someone might criticize my thinking but I think with all the irrigation systems being installed in the US we are wreaking havoc on our micro-environments. Dont you notice how these customers are also getting high nitrogen fertilizer put down on a yearly basis.

Education and ethics have a long way to go in arboriculture and landscaping.

I m really not preaching just opening the dialog to a deeper understanding of plant biology and ecology.
 
co-dependent is even far from the difference between grass and trees.

They are completely different except for their color and how they process sugar.

I know they have some things in common but they just compete, thats it. Walk in a forest vs walking through brush or a field. There is a reason in nature they more often than not they just dont grow together.

It is only a "natural" setting in urban environments when we manipulate the situation. I tell customers all the time the best growing conditions for a tree are when the grass is removed out past the drip line. Think about the soil horizons and how different the growing habits are with and without grass. Grass sucks nitrogen from the soil, so we have to replace it much faster than if there is a good organic layer ripe for the picking under a tree.

Too many times people think that putting down a plastic ring a few feet from the bottom of the tree is going to do much good. I think this is because people have a lot more contact with landscapers and not enough with an Arborist. The only it IS good for is to keep those mowers and weed wackers away from the trunk. Shallow roots are good but they are usually very shallow because they have to be. Shallow roots make trees weak in the long run.

Think about a tree that has no competition from grass, most tree absorbing roots should be a few inches below the surface. This horizon has a decent amount of moisture which benefits fungus, bacteria, and the macrobiotics that feed on organic material breaking it down for trees to use.

When roots are too shallow they dry out, lack symbiotic fungi, and have to work harder to get what the tree needs.

You have to look natural to get good results. You have to look at the woods and three or four inches of decaying matter in the duff layer which feeds the roots down below.

It is usually just a matter of what people prize more and the collective "expert" advise they receive on a regular basis. Most people think watering daily is the best way to get healthy plants when really watering once or twice a week is the better way to get deep (3-4 inches) root systems.

Someone might criticize my thinking but I think with all the irrigation systems being installed in the US we are wreaking havoc on our micro-environments. Dont you notice how these customers are also getting high nitrogen fertilizer put down on a yearly basis.

Education and ethics have a long way to go in arboriculture and landscaping.

I m really not preaching just opening the dialog to a deeper understanding of plant biology and ecology.

Actually, the term "co-dependent" was meant to be a bit of comic relief on my part ! I guess it was lost..., though....

You'll get no argument from me on the topic of deep irrigation for landscape and trees.
Actually, I've been involved in professional TURF care just as much if not more than I have other aspects of the green industry.
And throughout my quarter-century tenure I've (almost) always found that the plant(s) respond better by deeper, and less-frequent watering; including the root systems of turf.

Your other statements, though, that essentially express that a healthy tree specimen, having likewise healthy turf growing under it, is not a good manageable long-term situation in that the turf inevitably will in most cases 'win out' over the tree by winning the battle for water and nutrients, I believe are necessarily not true.

In my years of travels around the country and vacations abroad in Europe and Asia, as well as my day to day business activities here in Ohio, I've seen MANY examples of well-groomed turf being managed well within the drip lines of trees of all different species and sizes, including some similar to this weeping cherry in size and placement.

And yes, grass doesn't normally grow under trees in the forest.

But in nature, homo sapiens don't normally go around in the forest with saws, thinning out tree branches to allow for more light for the turf (or landscape plantings, or whatever) to grow underneath the canopy, right ?? :laugh:

Of course, in a forest, trees compete with different species and with each other for water, nutrients, and sunlight. And just like C.D. said, the best adapted species always survive...

So therefore...I believe there's a 'yin' and a 'yang' (a 'balance' of things) that may be possible in my situation, as well as many similar turf vs. tree situations.
The trick is to find the balance.
 
Judging from the title of this thread it sounds like you haven't yet found the balance for your weeping cherry tree.

That's right.

Why would I post a thread about a problem with a tree if I thought something wasn't wrong, and didn't want to hear some other viewpoints about it from people who may have had a similar, if not exact situation?

My expertise is mostly in turf and nursery / landscape; not necessarily trees and their relationship with turf, by any means.
I admit that.
Otherwise I'd probably not have to be here asking this question.

But it doesn't take anyone with ANY experience in the green industry to see the fallacy of the logic in the statement :
" All turf grass should always be removed from within the drip lines of ornamental trees, " correct ???

I'm just going by the obvious 'sybiotic' tree / turf relationship successes I've seen going on in many successful situations in various places around the WORLD throughout the years. And, frankly, I always discount the 'green industry-segment' bias I read on this site (and other sites) where I see it, in order to add the necessary clues here and there for me to establish the 'yin and yang' of various problems I run into, or if I'm trying to help someone else solve a problem locally.
That's all part of the scientific method...
_______

Could the turf be adversely affecting the tree, tipping the balance too far in favor of the turf ?
You bet. I knew that could be a contributing factor, at least, going in.

Could it simply be a root flare issue?
Not as likely. The top half is only slightly buried. Not enough to make much difference.

Could it be simply a large girdling root?
I think this is the most likely problem now.
I'll probe around when the (now sopping wet) ground is more condusive...
I'm hoping that this is the problem, but that the root's not TOO big!

I'll see in a week or two.
 
Sounds like a root issue from here. Most likely manifesting itself now years after planting. Check that root flare. I'll bet dimes to dollars that thing is buried. I don't think these trees have only a 25-30 year life expectancy. As for the turf, I doubt that's the sole problem, but if the tree is already struggling, I bet it's not helping. That's my interpretation based on what I've heard, having no picture to go on. Maybe post some pics after excavation? Good luck.
 
I still don't think it's a girdling root or other root problem as the problem was described. The problems happened in too short a time frame. If it happened over a couple of year period of decline, then I would agree, but in a couple of month period after treatment, I don't think so.
 
my experience with weeping Cherry's that start showing signs of slowing growth and or start loosing foliage early in the summer have been from a very simple predator.... the
carpenter ant they love the inside core of these trees ,
and seem to slowly destroy the core which slowly affects what you see on the outside
i'm sure some guys are going to think i'm wrong but hey , i see what i see

hope this helps :crazy1: :crazy1: :crazy1: :crazy1: :crazy1: :crazy1:
 

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