Please comment/criticize on my work

[jamie]

my views

1. get the stump lower, if you have to butress the base (remove the buttresses), no point in my eyes felling high, its just one more cut to make later on (i feel that its easier to cross cut than stump cut).

2. get all cuts flat, we have an informal hinge of the week comp at work...we remember the good hinges and the person at the end of the week gets that stump declared hinge of the week.

looking at one of your pics i thought it was ok, then realised that the hinge was the larger side

on my cutting course we had to itentionally hang up trees so that we could demonstrate that we can safely deal with them.

on leaning trees we only use pulling lines to help direct the fall, 2/3s of teh way up.

jamie

 

[murphy4trees]

Here's a perfect example of why the open face notch that we discussed earlier is a superior notch... Very little guess work... its rare to need to adjust the gun and when needed, adjusting the gun is much easier and quicker than with the old school conventional notch...

A couple of points...
I would use a doubled bowline at the come along...

There is nothing "wrong" with a deep notch... it's just not necessary in most cuts and a waste of time and energy... Looks like the notch isn't straight.... I forget what Beranek calls that... and what he said it will do, but it isn't desireable...

Did you clean out the notch well? In a couple of the pics looks like the roof cut is bypassing the floor..

Good amount of hinge fiber... almost too good... That must have taken a lot of pull and front lean to create a hinge that wide... It could have barber chaired on you with that much pull... especially if there was a bypass on the facing cuts...

Its good of you to ask and learn here... What you ask about, ten others are learning from... Keep it coming

Below pic is of an open face adjusted gun... Very quick.. very easy

 

[jamie]

leaners

for leaners i find that cutting the gob, then boring in and forming your hinge, then cutting back to leave the very back as holding wood works well, this stops a barbers chair.

to cut the holding wood ive been told different things, cut down at an angle (been told that the tree can kick the saw back up), cut flat or cut up at an angle,

watch out for a barbers chair i believe they could hurt....and it looks bad.

jamie

 

[jaymay75]

Murphy.
I looked up the double bowline knot and it looks interesting. I'll use it for now on. I always thought the bowline was sufficent, but from what I read it isn't.

Another question. I was told that if you want to tie a bowline in the middle of a rope, you don't have to pull the tail all the way through. Saves you from pulling 50 feet of rope through the knot. Basically, you have a bowline with two tails. Can you do this. I did it before and it seemed to hold with no problem.

 

[rumination]

Jaymay,

If you're looking for a good midline knot try the alpine butterfly.

http://www.chockstone.org/TechTips/Butterfly.htm

 

[murphy4trees]

The butterfly is a good knot... takes a load well I hear, and is best suited for a mid line knot where the line is loaded straight across, perpendicular to the knot if that makes sense...

There is a difference between double bowline and a doubled bowline. A double bowlineis an end line knot which is simialr to a bowline, the only difference is that there are two loops use to make up the "rabbit" hole....
The double"d" bowline is a mid line made by using a bite and doubled line to tie a bowline.. Think of it like this... fold a rope in half. Now use the new end with the bite in it to tie a bowline as if it were a single line. What you end up with is a fat knot with three loops, which are hooked to the come along...

 

[geofore]

glens

Clean out you mailbox, it's full. I can't pm you till you empty it.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

i think of a double bowline/mountaineers bowline as a superior roundturn bowline. i think a single turn in about anything upgraded to a round turn is much better. i prefer the DBY or Double Bowline with Yosemite tie off; for favorite bowline and leaves a clean eye, provides a backup knot effect where one is required by book, but few actually place i think. i think a butterfly is best loaded on both legs of line to the loop, instead of one, by virtue of it's construction.

If you prussiked the comealong to the locked off pull line, you could get another draw form comealong with emptier drum(should maintain round turn/2 wraps on drum) higher leverage pull than fuller drum. i kinda hate to think of a guy alone cutting and running back and forth to comealong though..... If the comealong pressure is intense and not straight to target, it could fake sidelean condition in hinge.

With good strength hinge wood i think pushes and pulls (line and wedge forces) should be in direction of target and not to correct/confront sidelean directly. Using them to correct lean unloads the hinge to that offending lean, thereby it can't help. Pull and push to target and force stronger hinge and let it's leverage steer for you i think.

Some has been said about too deep a face, took more work to boot! But i think there are some points beyond the obvious. Especially with a heavy head leaner as Jay and stump picture stands in testimony of.

Good stuff though am putting in my Stump Clues/Forensics Thread folder. Good job to control and walk from one of real size!

 

[glens]

Re: glens

Originally posted by geofore
Clean out you mailbox, it's full. I can't pm you till you empty it.

I'm not home at the moment and there's nothing in the PM box I want to dispose of outright, so send me an email (which I prefer anyway).  When I get home I'll copy out some of the PMs and open up that venue again.

Looking forward to hearing from you, Geo.

Sorry 'bout hijacking the thread...

Glen

 

[jaymay75]

Murphy,
I may have used that doubled bowline knot that you were talking about. From reading your explaination, its sounds like what I did. Can you provide a link that shows how to tie that? thanks.

Also, would a prussic knot work in this case, or do they only work in lighter loads.

 

[TheTreeSpyder]

Knotting and the properites inbued by small changes is fascinating, especially in the working class of knots that we use.

i think that "On-Bight" is midline in knot lingo; so i think this would be Daniel's "Double"D" Bowline is a mid line (knot)"; if not i trust a fair lesson non-the-less! Bowline on a Bight Animation


A Double Bowline(also known as mountaineer or round turn bowline) w/Yosemite tie off (DBY) is my personal favorite bowline, end knot, general purpose etc. Making it with the slip knot method is easy to me, especially in tree where weight of line can pull the lacing close at the end for you iffffffffffffffffff You Keep Knot Loose while Making! Also, the slip knot method lends itslef very well to makinng the even more secure water bowline with a clove rather than round turn as choke/rabbit's hole. The Double bolwine is stronger Not sure if water is stronger, but is more secure) and more secure than a regular bowline, The Y tie off leaves the eye clean and open, as well as provides positive stopper knot by trapping end under a previous choke, sitting on it's own bootstrap, such as in anchor/barrel evoled from round turn and constrictor knot evolved from clove, all sit on their own tail to secure.

i have a personal theory, that after making any type of Y tie off, then bringing the tail further down through the choke(s)(turn,roundturn,clove/rabbit hole) in bowline would make the bowline first loaded arc softer, like a double bowline does, and water bowline doesn't; thereby with less leveraged arc, the knotting should be stronger i think. In the slip knot methods, if you take the bight down the "rabbit's hole"; if ya take the bight from the 'rabbit'/tail/working end you make a jacked version of that particualr bowline. If you correctly take the bight from the 'tree'/long end/standing end, then you make the version of bowline particular to the rabbit's hole (turn,round turn,clove etc.).

i warned ya, it fascinates me!

Orrrrr something like that.
:alien: :alien:

Edit: we have seen some uses for the jacked bowline trapped against load as in running bowline or remote release of bowline set like sling, but not free hanging.

File is big, to barely fit limit's of posting and be as large/viewable as possible. i will try to find the one from TB (Tom's Board ) posted there in smaller form if needed.

 

[John Stewart]

Jay
Good to see you got a tagline in and you got it down safe
Try not to put so much tension on the tag next time and keep cutting a little longer so your hinge wood is not so thick
Those long fibers on the stump show you the tree was going over too soon and your hinge wood was starting to tear
This is a sure fire way to get a barber chair
Your notch was also a little deep
Keep the taglines going and keep practicing your doing fine
Be Safe
John
P.S
Take a Precision Felling Course from Arbormaster Training you learn a ton!