please confirm white mulberry is trash tree

[Farmer Ferd]

I recently cut down a white mulberry tree for a customer. The base was on his neighbors property from 3 foot up it was on his property. The tree was about 25' tall scraggly and mixing in with a hedge of nice ceders. My customer now has to go to court over this. can anyone give me some advice for my customer? Is there any source which will confirm that mulberry's are " trash trees"?

 

[Farmer Ferd]

I like them. You should have known better than to cut a tree that did not belong to your customer.

In NJ if a tree hangs over your property is does belong to you.

 

[PUclimber]

Settle and pay an amount for the tree. Yes the tree is not as desirable as others but that's a fairly large diameter tree and probably provided shade to the neighbor as well as other values. If the owner of the tree is smart they do a value analysis done by a certified arborist and take into consideration what value the tree gave to the landscape, shade over a house that might've reduced a/c bills. There's a lot of things taken into consdieration. It's one of those things that both of you should've known better but what's done is done and now they should take the value established for that tree and subtract the smaller caliper tree price that will replace it.

 

[Ed Roland]

The mulberry had value to the owner. That value is going to SURPRISE you.
Good luck and
know we have all purchased expensive lessons before.

 

[winchman]

beauty is in the eye of the beholder

i will second the "expensive lesson" theory, and add my 2 cents.
i have called trees "trash trees" before, but i have many favorite trees that others dislike. redbud and catalpa are two examples that come to mind. good luck finding a source on that, since the mulberry provided the aforementioned shade, was a large tree, and provides habitat as well as food for nature. i bet if the neighbor is a birdlover you just took away a valuable resourse of theirs. not trying to put salt in the wound, just had to comment on this one, since "trash tree" is a subjective, not objective, term.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

In many areas lotlines will prevail, but if you cross it is malicous tresspass. You admit you crossed the property line, maybe the client did not inform you so, but it might have been obviouse.

Could a reasonable person discern that the property line was near? If not, then you may be able to show you did not intend to destroy property.

Did you have any pictures prior to cutting that shows that it was predominantly on clients side? This could reduce the amount they can go for, being that is was a "boundry tree" which are sometimes concidered owned jointly.

Maybe good hig res picture of the hedge wich growth was being influanced by the assumed vollunteer mulberry

You may do yourself and your client a good turn by offering to plant a good species to replace. Maybe a fastigiate amilanchier?

Trash trees have little bearing. For some people green is good. Go for invasive and it may hold some water.



This USDA page sites good authoirity that it is invasive
http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=MOAL


This one shows it as being on the noxious invasive list for KY and VA
http://www.invasive.org/eastern/species/6050.html

Here it is on the invasives list for Montgomery, NJ 2003
http://www.montgomery.nj.us/invasiveplants.pdf

http://www.npsnj.org/references/invasive_plant_list.pdf
This is from Appendix to Policy Directive 2004-02
Invasive Nonindigenous Plant Species
October, 2004

The list includes Morus alba

This list is intended to provide guidance for planting, landscaping and restorations on Department lands, and does not constitute an official list of invasive nonindigenous plant species for New Jersey. No legislation currently exists mandating the creation of such an official list. In addition to enabling legislation, the creation of an official list of invasive nonindigenous plant species will require additional research, a thorough review by the scientific community and governmental agencies, and an opportunity for public comment.

You had no right to cross boundries.
The law tries to "make whole" the injured party.
Your best bet is to make the.

You can take these things to show that you had no intent to damamge the nieghbor, along with the offer to replace with a better speiceis of reasonable price.

Taking in the location and the tendancy for these trees to be seeded by bird excrement, one could argue that a smaller tree with better aesthetics is more valuable. My fastigiate recomendation


Here is a nursery in TN with prices
http://www.shadyvalleynursery.com/a.htm
I was going to paste in the table, but it did not move well.

Amelanchier
*canadensis, Shadblow Serviceberry
Noted for its showy apricot-orange to deep rusty red fall color. Early flowering with subsequent edible fruit.
6 ft. multi-stem 49.00
​

 

[Justice]

From my experience in New Jersey anything hanging over your property line you are allowed to trim. It is not however "your " property. In addition if you do trim the part overhanging your property and it causes the death of the tree you are responsible for it. That includes "replacement cost value". One case here was a 14 3/4 inch tree at DBH was valved at $27 a sq/in or $1250. The $27 value is a borough ordinance but the national standard is around $45 a sq/in I think.

OH, nice choice on the Amelanchier canadensis, and a great solution to the problem. A great way to come out looking good to both the homeowner and the person next door.

 

[Farmer Ferd]

I did not place one foot on the neighbors property. I cut it from my customer yard who told me it was OK. I left standing the part which was still on the neighbors property. The tree did not shade anything as it was growing into a cedar as i originally posted.

 

[Farmer Ferd]

one more note, I cannot think of anything that would grow there. It was growing from under a tall hedge. almost all the upper canopy was on my clients property.

 

[Justice]

Well if you are looking for a legal analysis you could contact the NJ Society of Certified Tree Experts. They are an authority in NJ, and are recgonized in court as experts.
I don't think actually steping on the property or if there was shade or not really matters. A lawyer could tell you but I still like the "plant a new tree" idea.

 

[John464]

In NJ if a tree hangs over your property is does belong to you.

who told you that one? it makes sense knowing and learning such laws before going into business for yourself

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

This is the old common law idea of encrochment and the propertyline goes to the sky.

There is case law presidence now, in a number of juricdictions that see that trimming as cause of death, holding the trimmer responcible.

So the simple way of looking at it is that a property owner has the right to control encroachment as long as that control does not do harm to the other party.

If the practitioner employs best practice in the control of encroachment, he will usually be in the right. Sometimes that may be heading and reduction cuts on the clients side of the lotline.

So Pherd did not tresspass, but in controling the encroachment he made a coppice cut. On Morris sp. this weill usually sprout up if it has enough light, so he might not have actually killed the tree.

Once again, if it goes to court, pictures help a lot.

You may need to hire a surveyor to sho that the boundry was not crossed.

One thing to remember is that if the hedge crosses the boundry, and the neighbor does not get some satisfaction, it may give him leave to butcher his side of the hedge.

I would still offer to plant a small B&B tree to replace if someone else paid for it. Heck that sight I listed has 4 ft multi stemed A. leavis for $25. If both parties balked I'd offer to get one of those and put it farther out from the lotline.

You may win in court from a moral point of view, but how much time will you loose by having to show up?

Put you ducks in line,
demonstrable invasive species
probable volunteer
sweep in stub/stem shows encroachment
If it starts to bud, you can show that it was not killed.

You win by showing good will, and they both will tell people about it.

 

[treeseer]

Mulberries are 30-60% species rating in the midatlantic. A fine species imo; durable and wildlife asset.

good lesson for all; if you do anything to a shared tree talk to both parties first.

 

[clearance]

I did not place one foot on the neighbors property. I cut it from my customer yard who told me it was OK. I left standing the part which was still on the neighbors property. The tree did not shade anything as it was growing into a cedar as i originally posted.

I am so with you F.F., cut down some p.o.s. scummy tree and the whinin and crying starts, they always want money, tell 'em to go pound sand.

 

[treeseer]

I seldom see moss or lichens on mulberries, and have never seen scum on one.
I'm kinda partial to em cuz Morus Spillane is my favorite writer.:jester:

Have you talked to the neighbor, looked around that yard and thought of a way to make things right? Settle now! The last place you want to be is court.:jawdrop:

 

[rebelman]

Yes mulberry should have a high rating. Shade ratio, strength. Mulberry is one of the best urban trees. Deal with it. You'll understand. Let mulberry grow.

 

[wdchuck]

Mulberry......wine, berries, jam, sauce,.......yep, food source, more value.

 

[Dadatwins]

Planting another tree and even stopping by once a week to water it for a year will be cheaper than the legal fees. Make nice with the tree owner and learn a valuable lesson. Good luck.

 

[Ekka]

The base was on his neighbors property from 3 foot up it was on his property. The tree was about 25' tall scraggly and mixing in with a hedge of nice ceders.

In NJ if a tree hangs over your property is does belong to you.

I left standing the part which was still on the neighbors property. The tree did not shade anything as it was growing into a cedar as i originally posted.

one more note, I cannot think of anything that would grow there. It was growing from under a tall hedge. almost all the upper canopy was on my clients property.

Part of being a responsible tree owner is ensuring no trespass and if there is trespass ensuring no nuisance is caused by such trespassing tree. Clearly it was interfering with not only other trees but a group of trees planted with a purpose of screening and uniformity to the landscape.

Substantiate the nuisance factor, what it was causing and doing and that you were exercising your right to go back to the fence-line.

Follow common law here and dig, you'll find in NJ they even have law that says you are entitled to trespass to abate a nuisance. Forget the tree hugger angle, as long as that tree was not a protected one you done what you were allowed and don't feel bad for it.

quoted from http://www.lectlaw.com/def/a118.htm

As to private nuisances, it has been held, that if a man in his own soil erect a thing which is a nuisance to another, as by stopping a rivulet, and so diminishing the water used by the latter for his cattle, the party injured may enter on the soil of the other, and abate the nuisance and justify the trespass; and this right of abatement is not confined merely to a house, mill, or land.

The abator of a private nuisance cannot remove the materials further than is necessary, nor convert them to his own use. And so much only of the thing as causes the nuisance should be removed; as if a house be built too high, so much. only as is too high should be pulled down.

If the nuisance can be removed without destruction and delivered to a magistrate, it is advisable to do so; as in the case of a libellous print or paper affecting an individual, but still it may be destroyed.

 

[kevinj]

Mulberry......wine, berries, jam, sauce,.......yep, food source, more value.

Yeah I agree,
This is the type of tree that has some benifits to provide
a food source for wildlife and humans. But so are many other trees.
Walnut, butternut, wild cherry. But, Mulberry grows rather scraggly.
The berries are favored by birds, but, their droppings on the car, driveway, and house, are a negative. Roots spread vigorously and are noted for clogging drains. It is not recommended as an ornamental tree.
Therefore I think your neighbor is just looking for a couple extra bucks.
I say, settle it out of court.
buy him a nice replacement tree for $50.00. And a case of beer,
and call it even.




Tell him