plundge cut.....

[03treegrunt11]

I've always used a notch and back cut to drop logs and/or trees......recently, a rep from Huskqavarna used a notch and a plunge cut to drop a few trees for a demo. He made his open-faced notch. Made a plunge cut, leaving about 2-3 inches of hinge wood and a few inches of wood attached behind the plunge cut. Then he removed the saw, gave his verbal warning, cut the remaining wood behind the plunge cut and felled the tree. He said it was safer than the notch and back cut way.

Just wanted some feedback from guys that actually do the work everyday, not to put the Huskqavarna guy down, but I don't know if he does this type of work daily.

 

[arboralliance]

Depends...

You haven't given much detail about the tree/s, lean, wind, etc, etc...

I wouldn't say it was safer but it is a technique i use quite often however where i can i will go all the way through so as to be able to drive a wedge or two in from the back but yes if the tree is bigger than the bar then i will relieve the center with a plunge or bore relief, all depends on the dozens of variables that tumble through the head of the feller at the time of assessment...

Give us some more detail please...

 

[smokechase II]

Plunge

It is not safer than than traditional face and back cut.

It can be. (Particularly on heavy leaning - barber chair prone trees).

Look into the open face. Figure out when it is best.

On many trees, no difference, just that the traditional method is easier and faster, less time in the danger zone. Easier to look up.

Can you recall how much time the Husky Rep looked up? Danger from above!

Learn to view those with a narrow view as limited in experience or limited in acceptance.

 

[John Ellison]

Yes

 

[tawilson]

Round here it's usually called the "bore cut". It's been hashed over pretty good. A search should get you some good reading and varied opinions.

 

[03treegrunt11]

Smokechase, no...I don't remember how long the rep was looking up.

Arboralliance, I'm pretty sure he (the Husky rep) didn't mean to ALWAYS use the plunge-cut method on EVERY tree, but I hadn't (and STILL haven't) attempted to use the plunge cut method. Just wanted to see what the true tree pros thought about the p/c method.

I don't think I'll use it, I've always been comfortable with the ole' notch & back cut.:deadhorse:

 

[Wolfking42084]

Most of the time, i never use it. For just a normal tree, i use a normal cut. however, the plunge cut, using a hinge is wonderful on the leaners of any kind.

 

[jrparbor04]

i use both methods daily,,,i do agree the bore cut is a safer way to fell a tree on a heavy leaner,,,normally when i am felling a tree or a spar i look up many times as i saw,,,but also on the traditional cut i also look at my target and the back cut itself,,,before anyone attempts a bore cut method always always get proper training such as arbormaster training

 

[lync]

On a heavy leaner with a large trunk diameter the tree may barber chair (split in your face) before you can saw the back cut up to the proper hinge width. Bore cutting and setting up the hinge width first, then cutting the back strap, makes sure the hinge is not too thick when the tree goes over.
Practice on a few thinner trees (12inch )before you try it on something big. Its just another tool you can use.

Corey

 

[joesawer]

It is not safer than than traditional face and back cut.

It can be. (Particularly on heavy leaning - barber chair prone trees).

Look into the open face. Figure out when it is best.

On many trees, no difference, just that the traditional method is easier and faster, less time in the danger zone. Easier to look up.

Can you recall how much time the Husky Rep looked up? Danger from above!

Learn to view those with a narrow view as limited in experience or limited in acceptance.

+1 Well said.
Wow, I am seeing a shift in the responses.

 

[Ekka]

He said it was safer than the notch and back cut way.

It is on forward leaning or forward weighted trees as it prevents premature release and possible barber chairing.

On a verticle symetrical tree like say a pine you would be losing one of the most leveraged spots for wedging as the "strap" is there.

You really need to know the whole range of felling techniques and which one would suit the given situation. They all have their pros and cons ... this aint no "one size fits all" tree felling technique.

 

[Bermie]

Yup, this is an acceptable method for felling a tree where appropriate
Appropriate would be a tree leaning in the direction of intended fall.
It is a technique to add to your bag of tricks to be used when warranted.

 

[IndyIan]

When felling a tree you have to cut from each side, is the procedure to always use plunge cuts? I have been doing this so far with out issues but I was wondering if this is best.

 

[Bermie]

You don't have to...
If I understand what you are asking (I could have you wrong) What is the condition of the tree? Leaner or just a big ass tree?

Cut your notch, come in at 90* on one side (so the tip of your bar is at the back of the hinge, cut across the back of the tree then once you are far enough across, pivot and finish as normal. Downside is being able to set the proper hinge dimension all the way across.
Or...bore in from one side, set hinge then pivot around the back and finish as normal.
I would hesitate to do this on a heavy leaner, more for a tree bigger than the length of your bar an altenate to boring from both sides...

 

[IndyIan]

Bermie, I did mean big trees, the last one I cut was about 30" with a 20" bar. It was a leaner too so I did bore both sides. I will try your suggestions on the next big tree that isn't a big leaner.

 

[deercatcher]

The open face technique is about control; and using your tool to its full capacity. A standard 45 degree notch is mimicking cross cut saw (which has difficulty cutting on a bias, or slant, and the axe. the bed cut was made into the front, the axe chopping out the notch, then the back cut was also sawn perpendicular to the trunk.

When chainsaws arrived, the sawyers just kept doing it the same way.

The hinge is the last construct in this technique, and the sawyer must stand close to the base of the tree, cutting enough to start the fall. If a mistake is made, it is when everything is happening at once, and he is in the middle of it. Once the trunk is falling, when it rotates 45 degrees, the face is closed, and the hinge must break. That is the equivalent of letting go of the steering wheel half way down the driveway, and hoping to arrive in the garage!

With a 90 degree open face, the hinge steers all the way down, and often with a 10% hinge, will stay on the stump; keeping the tree stable while it is cut up. Or you can sometimes drive under it.

The bore cut sets up the hinge with out the added exitement after cutting the notch. As you cut to the rear, leaving the strap, one can check and double check, before releasing the tree, and stepping well away.

I have used greater than 90 degree faces in topping removals to shorten the distance travelled away from the trunk by the falling top.

A traditional 45 in a in the tree topping cut will maximize the distance travelled away, which is also useful.

With a tree larger than the bar length, plunge both sides, and the back cut does not need to meet precisely.

After using the 45 for 30 years, I have changed to the open face 90. It comes in handy when the back side is impinged by a fence, or the other fork of a codominant forked tree. Wedging technique would be another boring lecture; but is a profound part of this technique. the hinge tends to be thicker, and the wedges are needed to start the bending of the beam (hinge) until the mass displacement is enough to complete the fall.

 

[Stumpcutter1]

Yup, this is an acceptable method for felling a tree where appropriate
Appropriate would be a tree leaning in the direction of intended fall.
It is a technique to add to your bag of tricks to be used when warranted.

Very true learn it and use it if you need to not because it's a trend usually totally unneccesary unless maybe you have a bad leaner then usually i just chain the crap out of it,but I have used the cut at times

 

[woodchux]

I posted a video of a plundge cut used to top a dead leaning oak.
http://arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=50407
I used a fairly shallow open face because i wanted to make sure that the top popped loose from the spar before it hung up. Normally i tend to use about 70*
Notice that there is zero shaking of the spar.

 

[nytreeman]

Good example, good place to use it too gets it going quick and gets it clear, nice job woodchux!