Point of entry

[slowp]

:sword:

Hey whaddya mean? We have sidehills up here in MI. Heck it's at least 100 yards from the bottom of the hill at my deerblind to the top.

"packin a 046 with a 36" bar for 12 hours on a friggin' sidehill all day in the bush..."

Those words spell "Coronary" to some of us. I can't even imagine doing that. More power to you dude.

Having worked in the woods in both places, here's an example of my comparison...I'm a PNW native who voluntarily was exiled to Wisconsin, where the people are very nice. I got to try on a cheesehead in the "Packer Bar"

I'm walking through a logging unit in Wisconsin, thinking how flat it is, much like a park--my knees are liking it. I get out to the road and the logger is there, looking all worried. He was told me he just didn't like having a woman out in that steep, rugged country walking about. It was very steep to him. Later, I dug out a picture I had of a unit east of Morton I'd worked in and on and when I showed that photo to them, it ended the worries about me on steep ground. HOWEVER, I had difficulty figuring out where I was on the flat ground, and had to use my compass (if I forgot to notice the sun) to get around. There are no land marks to be seen and usually no main ups or downs. The ticks are horrid and the humidity was awful in the summer. I got an intensive course in mechanized logging too.


Ohio guy: you really shouldn't go into an agreement unless you totally understand what is going to be done--and have a written contract. A good logger will not mind explaining what he's going to do, and should be glad to answer any questions. Like, define Point of Entry. A really good one will also try hard to do what you want (if it is reasonable) as he has a reputation to keep up. If you don't like the one you talked to, look for somebody else. The Midwest has good ones and bad ones just like anywhere else. The good ones might have a waiting list but it is wise to wait for them. You also will probably have to pay more for a good job but what do you want? You get what you pay for and the good guys will give you less headaches.

Out here some friends have had their land logged piece by piece. The last logger (I've worked with too) listened to what they wanted him to do, and did it, and he was so good that they want him back in 10 to 20 years to log it again. He declined to log part of the area, saying he could, but due to the slope it would make a big mess. He was a processor, skidder logger. That's an example of what you should look for.

 

[ropensaddle]

Hey, I already created a bs thread several months back, maybe ya
should have just posted this there Point of entry sheesh is
that where my cowboy boots enter some dopes butt or what

Oh, and we have some fair side hills here Gary but definitely not
quite as large as yours, none snow capped, but do understand
carrying straight up hill say 3100 feet! It is a work out not even
toting a thing:monkey:

I have two saws with 36" bars on them and they get used quite often here. Hey maybe the point of entry to becoming a real tree
man is when ya have toted around saws with that much bar

 

[Ohiowoodguy]

Simple question

Okay- now that we've all established that we all have the biggest wood (he-he) in the toughest situations; give it a rest.
I went into this deal with both jaded eyes open, aware of the risks and problems.
My motive for asking is to not cut what the logger is entitled to, since I'm going faster than him.
Does cutting a tree at a certain diameter at "point of entry" mean at ground level, or above the swell? If you don't know, please try to refrain from adding to the manure pit here, its FULL. Free speach is great, but whew!:deadhorse:

 

[ddhlakebound]

Okay- now that we've all established that we all have the biggest wood (he-he) in the toughest situations; give it a rest.
I went into this deal with both jaded eyes open, aware of the risks and problems.
My motive for asking is to not cut what the logger is entitled to, since I'm going faster than him.
Does cutting a tree at a certain diameter at "point of entry" mean at ground level, or above the swell? If you don't know, please try to refrain from adding to the manure pit here, its FULL. Free speach is great, but whew!:deadhorse:

:monkey:

Well, I don't think point of entry means the diameter somewhere you're not entering the tree with the saw.

But what I or anyone else here thinks it means don't mean squat. Because it's your loggers term, and only he knows what it means to him.

So quit pissin around about the definitions of obtuse local terminology, and go ask the guy.

 

[Gologit]

:monkey:

Well, I don't think point of entry means the diameter somewhere you're not entering the tree with the saw.

But what I or anyone else here thinks it means don't mean squat. Because it's your loggers term, and only he knows what it means to him.

So quit pissin around about the definitions of obtuse local terminology, and go ask the guy.

Good advice. Well said. I think what he wants is for us to validate some idea that he's already come up with. I can't really do that...mostly because I think the guy is a schmuck but also because I'm not entirely sure he's looking at his situation honestly.

He has issues with loggers but he'll get on here and suck our collective knowledge for his own gain without ever offering anything constructive in return.

He doesn't trust the logger he's dealing with but he entered into an agreement with him anyway.

I really don't think there's much we can do for this guy.

 

[Ohiowoodguy]

Good advice. Well said. I think what he wants is for us to validate some idea that he's already come up with. I can't really do that...mostly because I think the guy is a schmuck but also because I'm not entirely sure he's looking at his situation honestly.

He has issues with loggers but he'll get on here and suck our collective knowledge for his own gain without ever offering anything constructive in return.

He doesn't trust the logger he's dealing with but he entered into an agreement with him anyway.

I really don't think there's much we can do for this guy.

No help. You're allowed to say "I don't know" and move on. You don't have to post insults. If you choose not to believe or understand my explainations and clarifications, there's not much more I can do.
Issues: Dishonesty: a local "reputable" outfit contracted with a landowner to cut cherry at 15" DBH and above, paid him for what was there, but waited 4 years to harvest. In that time a lot more grew above 15" than what they had paid for, and contract had no time limit. Landowner's fault, but still...
Crazy: Logger is cutting grade logs (I was supposed to clean up tops), landowner lives in town, but her son lives on the property. Neighbors complain to son about cutting on their property. Son confronts logger with a crowbar, fights, sherrif is called, enraged son attacks deputies and is shot dead. Logger calls me a week later and says "Now that the guy is in the ground, you can probably get tops. The funeral is today, but I'll talk to his mother tomorrow." That's crazy- I never did hear back from him.

 

[cunrya]

Ohiowoodguy, the loggers aren't dishonest, but the timber buyers are shrewed. If you don't trust the guy I think you ought to look elsewhere. If your unsure of his terminoligy then ask. I understand you don't want to look like a greenhorn, but you'll look worse if you screw it up. I've heard that term before and he was refering to stump height (from Ohio too so...) I don't really think that is a standard term though so you ought to clarify with the logger.

 

[Ohiowoodguy]

Thanks

Ohiowoodguy, the loggers aren't dishonest, but the timber buyers are shrewed. If you don't trust the guy I think you ought to look elsewhere. If your unsure of his terminoligy then ask. I understand you don't want to look like a greenhorn, but you'll look worse if you screw it up. I've heard that term before and he was refering to stump height (from Ohio too so...) I don't really think that is a standard term though so you ought to clarify with the logger.

Thanks, I know they're not all dishonest, just many I've met have done stuff I wouldn't. The wood in this deal is too good to pass up. I would hope that at 51 years, 31 years cutting, I'm not still a 'greenhorn'. I'll just go with my interpretation and pay the price if I'm wrong. The way he and his partner bandied "point of entry" about, I thought it was maybe an older term I'd never heard of (always more to learn).
Next time I ask a question here, I'll make sure the older posters know the answer first, so they don't get so :censored: frustrated.

 

[2dogs]

No help. You're allowed to say "I don't know" and move on. You don't have to post insults. If you choose not to believe or understand my explainations and clarifications, there's not much more I can do.
Issues: Dishonesty: a local "reputable" outfit contracted with a landowner to cut cherry at 15" DBH and above, paid him for what was there, but waited 4 years to harvest. In that time a lot more grew above 15" than what they had paid for, and contract had no time limit. Landowner's fault, but still...
Crazy: Logger is cutting grade logs (I was supposed to clean up tops), landowner lives in town, but her son lives on the property. Neighbors complain to son about cutting on their property. Son confronts logger with a crowbar, fights, sherrif is called, enraged son attacks deputies and is shot dead. Logger calls me a week later and says "Now that the guy is in the ground, you can probably get tops. The funeral is today, but I'll talk to his mother tomorrow." That's crazy- I never did hear back from him.

What is your point?

 

[Ohiowoodguy]

What is your point?

Actually 2 points: 1. Trying to extricate myself from the quagmire of paranoia shown here when plain English is misunderstood. And
2. Explaining the reasons for my "issues".


If you don't have an answer, why do you care?

 

[Gologit]

Sap ?

Sap? Is that you, Sap?

I think I've got this figured out now. Ohiowoodguy isn't out of step...but all the rest of us are. I feel better knowing that everyone who tried to help this guy was as bad at it as I was.

It must be neat to be the only smart guy in the room. As a retired teacher he should be used to dealing with people less informed than himself. I wonder what he taught. Probably not logic.

And no, I have no real idea what Point of Entry means...but I'll probably live through it.

 

[2dogs]

Bob I think it has to do with Steven King having John Lennon murdered. Only the black helicopter pilots truly know the real point of entry. Put on your foil hat and watch the skies.

 

[Gologit]

Bob I think it has to do with Steven King having John Lennon murdered. Only the black helicopter pilots truly know the real point of entry. Put on your foil hat and watch the skies.

You're probably right. Why didn't I think of that? Wait a minute...I can't find my tin-foil hat...but I'll bet I know where I could borrow one. It'd be a long trip to Ohio to get it, though.

 

[ropensaddle]

Thanks, I know they're not all dishonest, just many I've met have done stuff I wouldn't. The wood in this deal is too good to pass up. I would hope that at 51 years, 31 years cutting, I'm not still a 'greenhorn'. I'll just go with my interpretation and pay the price if I'm wrong. The way he and his partner bandied "point of entry" about, I thought it was maybe an older term I'd never heard of (always more to learn).
Next time I ask a question here, I'll make sure the older posters know the answer first, so they don't get so :censored: frustrated.

Here is some advise; you say the logger's were using that quote
while speaking with you and you did not understand wtf they meant.
We have not helped you either with are smart azzed comments
I would be very aware of those guy's and their point of entry references,
they may be thinking :censored:

 

[redprospector]

Sap? Is that you, Sap?

I think I've got this figured out now. Ohiowoodguy isn't out of step...but all the rest of us are. I feel better knowing that everyone who tried to help this guy was as bad at it as I was.

It must be neat to be the only smart guy in the room. As a retired teacher he should be used to dealing with people less informed than himself. I wonder what he taught. Probably not logic.

And no, I have no real idea what Point of Entry means...but I'll probably live through it.

Well, I have tried hard to stay out of this, but I can no longer resist.
I have learned during my life that some people are beyond help.

Ohiowoodguy's "logger" friend sounds like a guy that was around here for a short time. He was one of those "if you can't dazzle em with brilliance, baffel em with BS" kinda guy's.

I don't know what "point of entry" is, nor do I care.........Unless someone I'm entering into a contract with start's throwing it around. Then I'll look them right in the eye, and ask; What the :censored: are you talking about?

Andy

 

[Gumnuts]

Sheesh .......!/ farmer wants 15 acres cleared.
2/ Logger wants good logs 12'' D up .his first priority is for good logs .AN tops 12"> he'll be WANTING for blocking.
3/ Firewood seller ( you) can have whats left under 12".....
pecker poles an limbs

If you are working with him he'll let you know what lengths he wants.You''l get an idea of what head / tops an limbs are yours.

If you are coming in after him ,which is probably the case it too should be clear what he wants - not rocket science.He's got first dibs if any of the tops exceed 12" tops.You cut off excess under 12".

If your going in before him just be mindfull if your dropping em to leave all
above 12"...lengths....even trim him a nice log ,every now an then.He sees your being mindfull of his stuff an he'll throw you some bones an make it easier for you.
You end up with limbs , sapling trees( pecker poles) under 12'' Same with tops.
You mentioned buttrussed stuff....eg,, ..take the 9".....

Police friend uses the term ' point of entry '
Rescue workers use the term ' point of entry '

Drop some and buck some small stuff that's under 12" and check with him that your cool to drop some bigger stuff - just be mindfull of not hanging them
up or creating probs for him to fix.Buck and collect one tree at a time.

When in doubt ...as you appear to be......just take the no brainers to start with ....more will be revealed, obvious as you work into it.

ARE YOU JUST GETTING FREE WOOD TO PROCESS OR ARE YOU ENTERING A CONTRACT FOR PURCHASE OF WOOD OR CLEARANCE ?????

Don't like seeing you get jumped on but suggest you leave the sarcasm out
for now ie,.' ARE'NT THERE ANY REAL LOGGERS HERE ? " CAUSE SOMETIMES YOU'LL CATCH ANY OR ALL OF US ON A BAD DAY.....TIRED, OVERWORKED AND
DOWNRIGHT ONERY.
POST A PIC OR 2 OF YOUR DISHONEST LOGGER OR YOURSELF( JOB SITE / TREES IN THE BACKGROUND) WITH A SMILE AND WE'LL BE EATIN OUT OF YOUR HAND.

- Graeme.

 

[zayder06]

Rational and reasonable answers not allowed.