poll: removals

[coydog]

hi all tree guys and gals, new to the forum, have really enjoyed reading the threads...
something of a minor moral dilemma...
Decided to set up my own business last fall, and have been almost completely dead all winter(which I fully expected and prepared for) but now that spring is around the corner and my reserves are about dry I get a call to look at a tree for removal and the thing is the nicest tree on the block! Not that it's a magnificent tree by any means( 50'-60' Norway in good health) it's just that it's a new development and it's the ONLY big tree on their street. I've cut my share of trees down that I thought should have been left alone but at least was working for someone else. I'll probably take the job for the higher cause of feeding my family , just wish I was busy enough not to.
So, thought I'd post a poll
If you get a job to cut down a perfectly good tree do you
a) not do it, you are a staunch idealist
b) do it but feel bad about it
c) do it but only feel a little bad about it
d) do it without thinking twice, you eat trees for breakfast

 

[seanlarkin]

What if you try selling them on the benefits of keeping the tree (shade, property value, etc.) and handle the pruning and fertilization. That way the tree lives and your family eats...everybody wins.
-Sean

 

[treeman82]

I am with Sean on this one. When you think about it, you would actually make out better by selling them on pruning, fert, etc.

 

[WRW]

Did the customer say why the tree was to go? Did you ask?

 

[Treeman14]

Like WRW said, did you ask why? I always ask, if they haven't already told me. Besides, we need permits for nearly all removals here, so the reason for removal must be stated on the application. Customers sometimes have some pretty bizarre ideas about what they want to do to their trees. If you can figure out their objectives; i.e. more sunlight, less leaves to rake, worried it might fall, then you can suggest better alternatives. Since this is a new development, IS the tree going to survive? How much damage was done during construction?

Assuming you've done all you can to offer alternatives, I wouldn't feel too bad about cutting it if that's what they still want to do. After all, its their tree. It would be like a painter refusing to paint a house because HE didn't like the color.

 

[DDM]

I have to agree with Brett if they want it cut down Someone is going to cut it down for them The
Big Moral dilemma i have is the topping issue even
though about 75% i have turned to pruning jobs A big seller for pruning rather than topping is cart a Photo Album Works wonders.

Later,
David

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I'm with them all here.

Why do they want to take it down? Can I allay their "fears"? Can we trim our way out of a problem? Will the lower price of the trim/prune encourage them to go that way?

(trim vs prune, pruning is the cutting of limbs/branches taking the trees structure and health into concideration, triming is stuctural claerace like ROW work and can invlove heading cuts and lionstailing (Oh go away Mike! ) wich may need to be done to save a large limb.)

If they are dead set on removal, i will not walk away from the work. Then i try to sell the replacement !

 

[Dave]

I hear Mike logging on

 

[coydog]

yeah I've talked to them initially and they just think it's plain too tall and want to plant some smaller trees in its place. Their house was there before the rest of the street was put in so no construction damage. Believe me you don't need a permit to do anything to a tree around here like you do in Tampa.
The call started out like... my husband knows how to do tree work and has those things you put on your feet but has no way to top our tree before he cuts the rest down, how much would it cost for you to just cut it half down because he can do the rest... i'm sure you all know the routine

 

[WRW]

My choice is not in the poll so I won't vote. Not fitting in the intended landscape effect is a valid reason for removing a tree, shrub, flower, or building. I'd give the tree owners about five minutes of alternatives to removing the tree to be sure they are committed and then take it down.

 

[Goin]

I'm pro-choice.

If they want it cut down and you refuse, they WILL find someone to do it.

If you try to dissuade them and they still insist, don't be a martyr, feed your family!

 

[Toddppm]

All sound like reasonable replies to me I would just ask why and try to talk them out of it too, but in the end I'd have no problem taking it out. Not to be Un-p.c. , around here alot of asians have something against trees! They'll buy these nice houses w/ established trees and landscape and want to cut down every last tree, they seem to be scared to death of them for some reason. The only way you can talk them out of it is if your price is too high

 

[Oakdude]

I would remove the tree without thinking about it. The tree will put food on the table and if you don't remove it someone else will.

"I eat trees for breakfast!"

 

[DDM]

I tried eating a tree for breakfast but let me tell you right after lunch it was a Bad experience
and picked out splinters for a week!



Later,
David

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

I am with John on this one, what a tree needs when it is growing over a greenhouse, with all that glass, is to have it's limbs liontailed.$$

You get paid to do that, then the first windy day, they pay you to come back and get the broken tail out of their smashed greenhouse.$$

Then if you are any kind of salesman, you can tell them how much safer it would be if you topped it out.$$

After his friends laugh at him for having such a stupid tree, his embarassment will force him to have you back again to remove it.$$

But he needs shade so sell him a new tree.$$

Now that new tree needs to be trimmed...$$

And how you gonna trim it? Lionstail!$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I would much rather lionstail then remove a large limb and have a big wound in a trunk. I would prefer to do subordination and directional pruning, but it is not always an option.

Yes, you are changeing the moment of the limb drasticly, but the winds I've seen them fail in break other limbs too.

And If you read the whole paragraph I did state that these practices are not taking the trees best interest into concideration.

Maybe these people want the tree down because the prior owners left all the low branches on the and they are growing into the house:jester:.

Unless you are only deadwooding the tree, any work you do is wounding it, and altering the mass ditribution and moment of bending.

And if I were planting a new tree it would be a little whip with no codom or large branches on it. Or i would subordinate those so I could remove them at a later date or control their direction of growth. I would also look at the structure so that any of these structural charictaristics, if desired, would not be a in conflict with buildings or traffic areas in the future.


It is far far better to stub a little
then to flush at all.

 

[sonny]

I say remove the darn tree. The $ is in removals. If you so worried about the poor trees life why no transplant it. get the sell on the new sm. tree, to replace the large one.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

I disagree that the money is in removals.
You are there once and the tree is gone. We charge the same for trimming(per hour) as removals. Although, removals are low skill work, compared to proper trimming, so I guess you can make more money by putting guys on a lower pay scale on the removals.

John, I would rather top a tree out at 45 feet than 35 feet, but to be honest I will not do either(unless I am removing it).

When I started triming trees almost twenty years ago, I made my fair share of improper branch removals. I even topped a couple of trees, years ago, with our buddy "slick". You will find that it is almost NEVER necessary to make improper prunning cuts, like topping or liontailing. It take experience. It's not just looking at prunning cuts in a website picture or a book. It's making the cuts and coming back in 5, 10, 15 years later and seeing what happened and why.
You seem to have a grasp of trimming concepts and tree biology but the application is a stumbling block.
For example, suppose I liontail a branch, even though it's common knowledge that it is improper prunning, let's say that tree is over a greenhouse, and that branch falls and kills a child...
Perhaps removing the branch will also create a hazard, then the tree is most likely a candidate for removal, the same as if topping was the only option.

 

[sonny]

(removals are low skill )
I guess thats where we differ.

 

[sgreanbeans]

i would have too agree sonny. i have seen and done some removals that were very complicated. ask Jon Paul about the cotton wood ive gotta do! (i might not!) i know going up and trimming and not hurting the tree is very hard. but ive had to take some seriously big wood down that is complety surrounded by permanet structures. that takes skill. i think every aspect of our work requires skill. its just some jobs require a lot more than others